The General Politics Thread v2.0 (AKA the "Labour are Cunts" thread)

[Devon Malcolm]

New series of Strike Back looks shit.

[David]

That'll put the shits right up Putin if he sees that. Another potential world leader in camo gear? 

[Keith Houchen]

57 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

New series of Strike Back looks shit.

There’s no way Starmer will authorise a strike. 

[BigJag]

How can a disenfranchised individual be swayed to pay attention? I'm fed up of hearing from people that it doesn't matter whether they vote or not. I simply do not understand that mentality.

[Keith Houchen]

1 minute ago, BigJag said:

How can a disenfranchised individual be swayed to pay attention? I'm fed up of hearing from people that it doesn't matter whether they vote or not. I simply do not understand that mentality.

You’re working on the assumption that the disenfranchised aren’t paying attention. Many of us are disenfranchised because we’ve been paying attention. 
 

I live in a constituency that has one of the biggest majorities in the country. It doesn’t matter if I vote or not as the sitting MP will win regardless. 

[Loki]

1 hour ago, David said:

Whenever I do peek my head in for a quick look to see what's happening? Fuck all has changed. Me not being involved or not voting hasn't made any difference at all.

Of course, you'll never know whether if you, and other non-voters, HAD been involved, it would have changed things.

I don't have any issue with people choosing not to vote, but if they choose not to participate in the democratic process then they don't get to moan about the outcome, to me at any rate. 

We get an opportunity, once every couple of years, to choose who runs the country/runs our local services.  If you are generally happy with things, or you don't care if they change, then don't vote.  If you DO care, then vote.  Just don't moan to me about the government and then not bother to put an x on a piece of paper to try and get rid of them.

Edit: 

 

4 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I live in a constituency that has one of the biggest majorities in the country. It doesn’t matter if I vote or not as the sitting MP will win regardless. 

This absolutely sucks,  BUT if enough people decide to vote the MP out, then he's out regardless of his majority.  Not casting a vote is certainly NOT going to change anything, indeed it generally favours the incumbent.

There are enough people in most constituencies who don't vote, to change the results if they did.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Loki

[Loki]

1 man, 2 posts.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Loki

[SuperBacon]

3 minutes ago, Loki said:

We get an opportunity, once every couple of years, to choose who runs the country/runs our local services.  If you are generally happy with things, or you don't care if they change, then don't vote.  If you DO care, then vote.  Just don't moan to me about the government and then not bother to put an x on a piece of paper to try and get rid of them.

Of course you still have the right to moan about it. People that don't vote may feel that no party currently represents them. 

That's a legitimate moan.

You can't just say people that don't vote don't care. 

[Keith Houchen]

4 minutes ago, Loki said:

BUT if enough people decide to vote the MP out, then he's out regardless of his majority

That’s going about it arseways though. You vote for who you want to win, not who you want to lose.  There’s plenty of seats where more people didn’t vote for the winner, and voting someone out is usually orchestrated on a “Lending your vote” to someone, and there’s usually two different people telling you they’re the only viable alternative. But as we often say, it’s all about compromise. It just matters exactly how much you’re prepared to compromise. 

[BigJag]

12 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

You’re working on the assumption that the disenfranchised aren’t paying attention. Many of us are disenfranchised because we’ve been paying attention. 
 

I live in a constituency that has one of the biggest majorities in the country. It doesn’t matter if I vote or not as the sitting MP will win regardless. 

I'm basing it on the people I know. Someone like @David likely has valid and sensible reasons for his apathy. He's made an effort to explain. I don't fully agree with him. He has explained himself well.

It's people that I'm aware know diddly squat and have zero inclination to change that. Yet still sit there and respond with the can't be bothered crap. Then try to argue using asinine tropes that can be dismantled in milliseconds. These are people I know. Their seemingly unshakable belief in not partaking in the voting process is quite abhorrent.

How can it not matter to people? Why do they not care? It's not as if their doing great by not voting.

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

4 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Of course you still have the right to moan about it. People that don't vote may feel that no party currently represents them. 

That's a legitimate moan.

You can't just say people that don't vote don't care. 

You can freaky streaky. It's like the Euromillions isn't it. You can't complain you've never won if you've never bought a ticket. You can complain you haven't won if you have. Like the Euromillions you voting also has about a 1 in 39 billion chance of getting the most desirable outcome. 

I am aware I may be getting obsessed with the lottery and politics vibe. 

 

 

[Loki]

6 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

That’s going about it arseways though. You vote for who you want to win, not who you want to lose.  There’s plenty of seats where more people didn’t vote for the winner, and voting someone out is usually orchestrated on a “Lending your vote” to someone, and there’s usually two different people telling you they’re the only viable alternative. But as we often say, it’s all about compromise. It just matters exactly how much you’re prepared to compromise. 

I think it's idealistic to think you can just vote for who you want to win.  In reality, sometimes you do need to vote against the person/party you dislike.

I'd love to change the voting system in this country, I've banged up and down streets putting leaflets into doors to do so.  But that doesn't mean it's pointless to engage with the system the way it IS, and take small incremental change where you can.  The more people who engage with our political system, and compromise as we all have to within the limits of FPTP, the more likely we are to get change.  It's about coming together with other people and expressing a communal desire, and then accepting the results.

It's imperfect, but all democratic systems are.  

The Conservative party rely on low turnout, they rely on voter apathy, they work towards it.  Fuck giving them what they want.

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Loki

[Keith Houchen]

8 minutes ago, Loki said:

The Conservative party rely on low turnout, they rely on voter apathy, they work towards it.  Fuck giving them what they want.

Indeed they do, but for me, I’m not voting for a party who are miles away from me politically to get rid of another who are a couple of miles further away. I also accept that I’m in a minority with my politics but it comes back to compromise innit. Now for a repeated post!

Voting is like public transport. You know exactly where you want to go but it’s highly unlikely there’s a bus stop or tram stop right outside the door of where you’re going. So you see which option gets you closest and use that service. However, if all available services aren’t going anywhere near wheee you’re going, you aren’t going to use them. 

[Loki]

Are there no socialist parties standing in your constituency @Keith Houchen?  There's usually one of those parties putting up a candidate.  The buses may only have 3 wheels, no driver and go in all directions, but at least it's a bus.

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

1 minute ago, Keith Houchen said:

Indeed they do, but for me, I’m not voting for a party who are miles away from me politically to get rid of another who are a couple of miles further away. I also accept that I’m in a minority with my politics but it comes back to compromise innit. Now for a repeated post!

Voting is like public transport. You know exactly where you want to go but it’s highly unlikely there’s a bus stop or tram stop right outside the door of where you’re going. So you see which option gets you closest and use that service. However, if all available services aren’t going anywhere near wheee you’re going, you aren’t going to use them. 

I live in semi-rural Lincolnshire Kool Keith. The public transport, like the local politics is nowhere near me, and unlike the local dogging, stops when it gets dark, which is unlike the local politics, which would like to stop the darks from getting local.