Paid Members BomberPat Posted December 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: Bryan Danielson is pretty open about not having much longer left in his career. Every time I see him booked against Jericho and co. I feel like screaming. He has a limited number of matches left, I want him with a new opponent every week. Give him Darby. Give him Orange. Give him the Young Bucks. I thought I'd have a look at this on Cagematch - Danielson's had 36 singles matches in AEW, 10 of them have been against members of the JAS. There's two tag matches, Anarchy In The Arena, and the ROH Title Four Way on top of that. Not only that, but - while, admittedly, a lot has changed in character, presentation and perception - Jericho and Jake Hager are people he fought a fair chunk of times while they were in WWE. He's also had a couple of matches with Jon Moxley, who he fought a lot in WWE, and with Miro and Dustin Rhodes, who he crossed paths with there. He got a singles match with Trent Baretta, someone else he'd already fought in WWE, and Dax Harwood, who he at least teamed with in WWE. If you go all the way back to ROH, and look to his opponents in AEW, there's Matt Sydal, Christopher Daniels, Colt Cabana, Rocky Romero, and Eddie Kingston who he faced in CHIKARA, and Bobby Fish in EVOLVE, and Nick Jackson in PWG. World's apart, but even the "dream matches" are opponents he'd faced before - Minoru Suzuki in NJPW in 2004, and Kenny Omega in ROH. Obviously whether a match has happened before barely tells you half of the story, but it's still instructive. A look at actual first-time matches in AEW for Danielson gives you Adam Page, Wheeler Yuta, Lee Moriarty, John Silver, Alan Angels, Evil Uno, Anthony Bowens, Aaron Solo, and Ray Jaz (who? Doesn't even have a Cagematch profile). It's not the worst list imaginable, but it's not what you'd hope for from a guy who signed with AEW having last been sign in a WWE Universal Title match, and who was in that year's Wrestlemania main event, is it? Working to elevate young talent is admirable, but he's a top star, and there are top star matches that they have a limited amount of time to pull off. The risk is that JAS vs. BCC has become equivalent to the Codyverse, this little micro-universe within AEW where they wrestle each other and no one else, and it feels like a big part of every show, but then someone leaves and you realise there was a whole list of matches on the table that never happened - the entire time Cody was in AEW, he was never in the same match as Kenny Omega. If Danielson were to leave AEW tomorrow, he'd do so without ever having wrestled Darby Allin, Jungle Boy, Hook, Keith Lee, MJF, Orange Cassidy, either of the Lucha Bros, Ricky Starks, Swerve Strickland, or Sting, nor getting most of the NJPW dream matches people had expected, or ever interacting with CM Punk. On top of that, no interesting rematches with wrestlers he'd faced in the past like PAC, Malakai Black or Samoa Joe, and no potentially interesting curios against someone like Bandido, Takeshita or Angelico. He's Bryan Danielson, so I have no doubt that he can be heated back up to be a main event player if need be, but he should be a guy that's fairly regularly hovering around the main event picture and, when he's not, just having reliably great matches whenever possible. Instead, he's been feuding with Chris Jericho since May, and in the Blackpool Combat Club story since April, which seems to have largely ended without his involvement. For the past two weeks, his character has amounted to "William Regal's mate". 11 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: it's Tony's entire booking philosophy. Long = good. If a feud runs for 5 months it must be good, because it ran so long. Regardless if nothing of note happened between month 2 and 4. I don't think it's even this, I just think he can't do course correction. Whenever somebody gets injured, or otherwise is unavailable, he just spins his wheels until he has everyone available again. I'm sure at some point either the JAS or BCC were going to spin off into another feud, maybe with The Elite after they won the Trios belts the first time, but after All Out they had to shuffle things around to get to Moxley vs. MJF and deal with Punk and The Elite not being there, and whatever had been planned for JAS and BCC was just put on hold and they kept this thing rolling on. Edited December 1, 2022 by BomberPat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 14 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: it's Tony's entire booking philosophy. Long = good Same when he chops out a line. And Scarface is obviously his favourite film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Turning on Regal to set up a Bryan match is great, taking 30 minutes to do it with a boring retread of a promo isn't. I can see people turning off during it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members TheBurningRed Posted December 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted December 1, 2022 39 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: And Scarface is obviously his favourite film. Until Cocaine Bear comes out in February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted December 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted December 1, 2022 According to Stokely Hathaway, the original idea of The Firm was to feud with CM Punk and that CM Punk specifically asked to work with him. If true, this is the worst thing Punk did in AEW. Even worse than his press conference tantrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: According to Stokely Hathaway, the original idea of The Firm was to feud with CM Punk and that CM Punk specifically asked to work with him. If true, this is the worst thing Punk did in AEW. Even worse than his press conference tantrum. Yeah, I saw that. It made some sense of the mini-Pinnacle reunion heading into All Out with FTR & Wardlow. As they would have matched up as back up to Punk against MJF and his latest set of lackeys. FTR's booking has taken a hit this year with things outwith their control. Jeff Hardy's suspension, Punk's original injury, and then the subsequent Brawl Out fiasco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Fatty Facesitter Posted December 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted December 1, 2022 Pleasantly surprised to see them have MJF turn on Regal. Not so much MJF turning - think that was always going to happen down the line - but after the first week was an interesting, yet good call. It's very much in keeping with MJF's general dickhead mentality, and as brilliant as Regal could've been as the villainous sidekick, he's not going to be mobile enough to be an insurance policy for MJF. It's also rare to see a union come to an end so quickly after it's been formed - but in 2022 I don't think that's too much of a negative and more just a sign of the times and the immediacy of how things can change, not just in wrestling but entertainment at large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonworden Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 29 minutes ago, Fatty Facesitter said: Pleasantly surprised to see them have MJF turn on Regal. Not so much MJF turning - think that was always going to happen down the line - but after the first week was an interesting, yet good call. It's very much in keeping with MJF's general dickhead mentality, and as brilliant as Regal could've been as the villainous sidekick, he's not going to be mobile enough to be an insurance policy for MJF. It's also rare to see a union come to an end so quickly after it's been formed - but in 2022 I don't think that's too much of a negative and more just a sign of the times and the immediacy of how things can change, not just in wrestling but entertainment at large. As much as villan heel manager Regal interested me. I liked the quick end to the partnership. MJF used him and in doing so got what he felt was his long time coming revenge on a man who let him down. The MJF character needs some backup but maybe not an old man. I'd be happy if Will Morrissey moved over to be his new heavy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted December 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, simonworden said: I'd be happy if Will Morrissey moved over to be his new heavy This is absolutely what they should have done from the start. Easy to set up too. "Wardlow turned on me, but now I've got an even bigger, more dangerous man behind me who is 100% loyal". Would work perfectly for a future Wardlow feud too. Being associated with The Firm has only hurt The Gunn Club, has meant we get loads of Ethan Page being boring on TV and W. Morrissey and Lee Moriarity have got nothing out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 45 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: This is absolutely what they should have done from the start. Easy to set up too. "Wardlow turned on me, but now I've got an even bigger, more dangerous man behind me who is 100% loyal". Would work perfectly for a future Wardlow feud too. Being associated with The Firm has only hurt The Gunn Club, has meant we get loads of Ethan Page being boring on TV and W. Morrissey and Lee Moriarity have got nothing out of it. I hope they re-unite Men of the Year once Scorpio Sky is ready to go. They could even have Stokely manage them, and disband The Firm in the process. Heck, W. Morrisey could be their heavy, if they wanted; giving them a new dynamic. On another note, when on earth did The Firm/Ethan Page end up "owning" Matt Hardy and Private Party's contract? This was brought up so casually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted December 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 minute ago, RedRooster said: On another note, when on earth did The Firm/Ethan Page end up "owning" Matt Hardy and Private Party's contract? This was brought up so casually. I think it was on an episode of Dark Elevation a few weeks ago. I've never really understood the whole "owns contract" thing. It worked with Wardlow because he was presented as very much a personal hire by MJF. But all this stuff with the HFO and now The Firm has been confusing as fuck. On top of that, I don't think anyone cares who owns whose contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I think it was on an episode of Dark Elevation a few weeks ago. I've never really understood the whole "owns contract" thing. It worked with Wardlow because he was presented as very much a personal hire by MJF. But all this stuff with the HFO and now The Firm has been confusing as fuck. On top of that, I don't think anyone cares who owns whose contract. Hardy was trying to make good with Private Party and get them out of their contracts with AHFO/LFI. The Firm sneaked in and bought out Private Party's contracts. I think because of an elimination in the Golden Ticket Battle Royale? As that might be the only time Page would have mixed up with Hardy/PP. This would lead to a match on Rampage. Page v. Kassidy. Private Party's freedom on the line or Matt Hardy being forced under the control of The Firm. Page won. It has been featured on snippets of Dynamite and more so on Rampage. As I don't really follow the youtube shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Weird as it sounds, the MJF turn wasn't Russo for the sake of Russo swerving. It was because he is the legit evil little shit, an emotional backstory that rather than create a good person, made someone with determination also hold awful terrible grudges where he almost can't be convinced at all he's in the wrong now. Dunno what you do with Regal but as he's not a wrestler you can't do fuck all really. Is he going back WWE? No idea, though if he was I don't see why he'd waste an extremely rare bump in AEW and then just appear on WWE TV. His walk of shame from Mox would made more sense. Anyway I liked it and I'm rather gutted Brawl Out occurred as Punk and The Pinnacle against MJF and the Firm would have taken more time on TV and not prolonged the JAS/BCC stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Rumour mill has gone from 1 year - 3 years - 9 months in terms of Regal's contract. Conspiracy theories ranging from a deal was done to it was always that way. With the proper crackpot theory it was always that way because he knew he would be back to WWE with Trips due to takeover. Trips being the one that grassed up Vince to get his job back. Safe to say nobody really knows anything right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Fatty Facesitter Posted December 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted December 1, 2022 Thinking of MJF's turn a little deeper - it reminds me of Wrestlemania X7 where Steve Austin sought help from Vince McMahon to effectively screw The Rock out of the WWF title. Slightly different dynamic obviously - Austin was a babyface and it was used as a vehicle to cement a heel turn. But Austin has mentioned a few times since that he almost 'called an audible' to turn on Vince immediately after winning the title. I'm not entirely sure how you'd play that out - it would have gotten a huge pop at the Houston Astrodome in Austin's backyard, but I think reactions after that would have still been a bit subdued because of the manner of his cheating. You could argue that he shouldn't have turned at all, and that The Rock should have gone heel, but there were all sorts of complications coming up with his Hollywood schedule and the impending Invasion. Perhaps this is a slightly more modern take on a 'what if?' scenario. MJF is a delightfully despicable heel though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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