Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 The other thing that comes to mind is that, even if these guys aren't on average as tall as WWE wrestlers, it's still something that makes the signing of Paul Wight work - anything that makes him look even more of a giant is a plus anyway. Personally, what I'd like to see is a series of vignettes, perhaps talking heads with Wight and others, about how he left WWE for a while to take time off and rehab injuries, got himself a new "training camp" (like the Nightmare Family or Team Taz or something), and now he's back to full health, probably as dangerous as he's ever been, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 See, now I've got the image of him training with Cody and eventually turning on him to join Taz.. Worse could happen but Jesus, Cody would look dumber than Sting used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Carbomb said: The other thing that comes to mind is that, even if these guys aren't on average as tall as WWE wrestlers, it's still something that makes the signing of Paul Wight work - anything that makes him look even more of a giant is a plus anyway. Personally, what I'd like to see is a series of vignettes, perhaps talking heads with Wight and others, about how he left WWE for a while to take time off and rehab injuries, got himself a new "training camp" (like the Nightmare Family or Team Taz or something), and now he's back to full health, probably as dangerous as he's ever been, etc. If agree if he had any kind of mileage but he has been around 20+ years, isn't half thhe athlete he was in 1996 and whilst I agree his name value may bring eyeballs in the short term, I don't see anyone tuning in just to watch Show. He has been fairly irrelevant for the past decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 37 minutes ago, Merzbow said: That's just not true in the slightest, it's lazy Cornette talk that everyone on the roster is some midget that looks like a fan. I didn't say them all. But many of them simply don't carry themselves w any kind of aura. The big guys they do have need to be used much more effectively. Maybe I'm just used to see guys like Taker, Kane, Reigns, Lesnar, HHH at el who look like they could kill you. Rarely do I get that vibe from many of the roster. And I say that as someone who wrestled at 140lb! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said: If agree if he had any kind of mileage but he has been around 20+ years, isn't half thhe athlete he was in 1996 and whilst I agree his name value may bring eyeballs in the short term, I don't see anyone tuning in just to watch Show. He has been fairly irrelevant for the past decade. Oh, absolutely. It's why I personally think a series of vignettes to try and address that irrelevance might be the best way to go with him in AEW. Kind of a "reset" via marketing, without having to go down the predictable and overused "WWE held me back and now I'm free" line. If they could establish a narrative in the promotional material that his long-term malaise was down to him never being quite right physically or in terms of training (especially with Cody trying to lay down what appears to be a narrative for an MMA-style training gym system that would reach across several promotions), then it at least would provide some kind of kayfabe reason to the audience why they should forget everything that came before and see what he's got to offer now. EDIT: As with my above points about Andre, and being a giant, his size affords him the luxury of not having to be as athletic as he was in 1996. In fact, wasn't he told back then to dial it back because he didn't need to? He doesn't need to bump all that much, I very much doubt he'll ever want to do much jumping, and he'll be the one member of the AEW roster we can trust not to do ring dives like everyone else. Edited March 3, 2021 by Carbomb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtrickio Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) He could hit the big showpé suicida though Edited March 3, 2021 by mrtrickio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Are we still going on about wrestlers sizes and 'aura'? Its incredibly pointless nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) It’s not, it’s probably more valuable than it’s ever been. Diamond’s are only worth so much in a market full of diamonds. But now that so few people have ‘size’ (or just a decent look generally) and have an aura, or a protected one at least, it’s becoming a money spinner for those that do. Brock Lesnar has made himself the most valuable asset in all of wrestling by simply protecting his aura. Humungous fuckers who can move and have a (well protected) aura are still the dream in wrestling. Edited March 3, 2021 by d-d-d-dAz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 I disagree that there are few people with a decent look - there's a ton of them, just what constitutes a "look" is very different now to what it was in the '90s. A lot has impacted on that - wrestling in the '80s and '90s (by which I mean, basically, the WWF and everyone who followed their lead) was in line with the same pop culture trends that made Arnie and Sly the biggest action movie stars, and He-Man one of the biggest cartoon and merchandising properties; the bodybuilder look was mainstream in a way it absolutely isn't any more. Today's action heroes are Marvel movie stars, who have physiques far more in line with modern wrestlers than with Hulk Hogan. UFC gives people a much more reasonable idea of what a professional fighter looks like - I find it baffling that we still have wrestling fans and wrestling personalities insisting that no one will buy a wrestler who isn't over six foot and 250lbs (or whatever) when Conor McGregor is probably the go-to example of a professional fighter in most people's imaginations, at something like 5'7" and 170lbs. In general, I don't think there is such a thing as an inherently "bad look" in wrestling. There's bad gear, bad hair, bad tattoos, and so on, all of which a wrestler can work on with minimal effort, but if someone's short, or fat, or skinny, but can still work comfortably and safely, and has decent cardio? That's absolutely fine. If the argument is "I don't believe the guy who looks like that could beat a guy who looks like Brock Lesnar", that's brilliant, because it means you have a built-in story for if those two people do end up fighting together. "I can't see how Wrestler A could beat Wrestler B" is, fundamentally, a reason to buy a ticket to watch that match. That's not to say that an "aura" isn't important, but aura =/= size or build. Pentagon Jr has one of the best "auras" of any wrestler I have ever seen live, but out of his mask and gear you wouldn't look twice at him. That's not to say that there isn't still a place for big fuckers in wrestling - there always in and always will be; I've long said that if you can't find a spot for someone like Great Khali on your roster, you've no business running a wrestling show. The thing with Big Show is, and largely due to how he was booked in WWE, he doesn't really have the aura of a "Giant" any more. We got used to seeing him every week, and the way WWE booked him towards the end meant that he was booked more in the category of "Legend" than of "Giant". If AEW are smart about it, they can comfortably capitalise on both of those characteristics - they've already made headlines off the "Legend" role just by signing him in the first place; he'll attract attention because of the shock value of someone of his position jumping ship from WWE, it's the most high profile signing arguably since Moxley, depending on whether you see him as a bigger or lesser acquisition than Sting. By having him on the commentary table, they have a reason for him to regularly show up regularly without having to book repetitive angles like they have with Sting. To categorise on the "Giant" category will, in some ways, be harder as we're so used to Big Show now. But if he's well protected, they could very easily remind us that he's a big fucker, and that he's exceptional for being a big fucker. I'm reminded of Jim Cornette talking about how WWE booked Matt Morgan - a legit 7 foot guy in brilliant shape, and they book him in a Survivor Series team with Brock Lesnar, Big Show and Nathan Jones, the only people in the company that will make Morgan look ordinary. In AEW, there is no one that comes close to Big Show's height, so he will look an absolute monster, and probably closer to the way Andre was booked in the '70s and early '80s than anything we've seen since. Just think how comparatively massive Billy Gunn has looked every time he's shown up there. The danger is more that Paul Wight's size downplays some of the "big men" in AEW. I've seen people fantasy booking him putting over Luchasaurus or Wardlow, as the two closest equivalents to him, but Luchasaurus is "only" 6'5", and Wardlow's shorter. I don't think that's necessarily a problem, unless they try and sell them as big men first and foremost, which I don't believe they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, BomberPat said: UFC gives people a much more reasonable idea of what a professional fighter looks like - I find it baffling that we still have wrestling fans and wrestling personalities insisting that no one will buy a wrestler who isn't over six foot and 250lbs (or whatever) when Conor McGregor is probably the go-to example of a professional fighter in most people's imaginations, at something like 5'7" and 170lbs. I agree with the rest of your post, but I would argue that this point doesn't necessarily follow, as boxing has been around for decades, and in the 80s in particular it was the smaller guys getting the majority of the spotlight outside Tyson - McMahon was able to convince people to buy the idea that athletes who looked like Sugar Ray Leonard or Tommy Hearns wouldn't have a chance against bodybuilders. Hell, he had Floyd Mayweather, the best boxer on the planet at the time, having to cheat against Big Show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Carbomb said: I agree with the rest of your post, but I would argue that this point doesn't necessarily follow, as boxing has been around for decades, and in the 80s in particular it was the smaller guys getting the majority of the spotlight outside Tyson - McMahon was able to convince people to buy the idea that athletes who looked like Sugar Ray Leonard or Tommy Hearns wouldn't have a chance against bodybuilders. Hell, he had Floyd Mayweather, the best boxer on the planet at the time, having to cheat against Big Show. That's fair - though I think boxing and wrestling are sufficiently different that it's not quite an analogue for the relationship with wrestling and MMA, which has been a lot more fluid. I think, rightly or wrongly, the layperson's perspective of an elite MMA fighter is of someone a class above a wrestler, a boxer, or anything else - just look how many people honestly thought McGregor could beat Mayweather at his own game, or just how many column inches were filled debating it. It feels like a throwback to wrestlers and boxers of the mid-20th century getting publicity off the back of "who would win between a boxer and a wrestler?" arguments, teasing Ed Lewis vs. Jack Dempsey, and so on. Wrestling is unique in that it's effectively all openweight, which underpins your point - though so much of that is in how you educate the audience. Gorilla Monsoon always used to say "a good big man will always beat a good little man", but what if you've got an informed voice on commentary saying the opposite? Playing up how a smaller wrestler will have to use their speed and dexterity to counter the big man's size and strength, and so on? That, fundamentally, is what wrestling is all about, and I'm genuinely curious to see how AEW handle it. For example, I can't even begin to picture what a Kenny Omega vs. Big Show match looks like, but that just makes me want to see it more. I want to see Big Show vs. Rey Fenix. Wrestling can give us the kind of style clashes and freakshow fights that mainstream MMA or boxing doesn't, and if AEW are smart they'll really lean in on that aspect, while WWE very quickly came to treat Big Show's size as almost unexceptional, and took him for granted, or else spent too long booking him against/alongside people like Kane, Undertaker, or Khali, all of whom serve to make him look less impressive by comparison. EDIT: I don't think Mayweather having to cheat to beat Show was solely about size and perception, so much as it was about protecting the WWE brand/wrestling from a loss to an outsider. You don't want the wrestler losing clean to a boxer if the boxer's working heel, so you throw in some shenanigans, and if the wrestler's the one working heel, you go for the old "gets disqualified for using a wrestling move in a boxing match" finish. Edited March 3, 2021 by BomberPat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) I think I made 2 slightly counterintuitive points. I think the combination of size and aura is the dream for a booker. If you’re >6ft, over 200lbs and can walk into a room/stadium/bar, whatever, and command everyone’s attention - however you do that - then you’ve got the absolute greatest chance of success. You have the ultimate headstart. That said, look isn’t necessarily defined by size - its defined more by a deep understanding of your character/role and how that should intertwine with your aesthetics. Rey Mysterio had a tremendous look, Eddie had a great look, Bret Hart, Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles.. plenty of smaller guys who perfectly encapsulated who and what they wanted to project to an audience with just their aesthetics. That said, I’d say as a percentage of ALL WRESTLERS, the numbers never been lower of those that can translate what they do into a strong look. There’s a lot of wrestlers who don’t dress/present themselves in any way that tells you anything other than ‘THEY THOUGHT THAT LOOKED COOL’ or whatever. So the argument might be that LOOK isn’t the problem, so much as there are fewer wrestlers who have a discernible character from which to derive a look. But, I’d still say that the general point that fewer wrestlers today look the part stands. Some of that is they’re smaller than the generation before, but a lot of it is they either don’t have a character beyond ‘GUY THAT WRESTLES’ or they don’t understand their character fully. Aura is a separate issue that is by and large in the hands of the booker, and WWE have proven themselves utterly inept at protecting aura’s. Edited March 3, 2021 by d-d-d-dAz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dart Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I can see why they announced him signing, but him just showing up tonight unexpected/unannounced would have been pretty awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 39 minutes ago, The Dart said: I can see why they announced him signing, but him just showing up tonight unexpected/unannounced would have been pretty awesome. This I very much agree with. With the best will in the world, it would be difficult to describe him as anything more than an intriguing signing because of the past twenty years in WWE, so it strikes me that AEW haven't really gained anything by announcing him - they could really have ramped up interest with an "anything can happen in AEW" moment by having him show up unexpectedly by ripping his way through the canvas or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 I would’ve given anything for Marko Stunt to promise a big surprise in his feud with FTR and then out comes the fucking Big Show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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