Matches that changed wrestling

[Pinc]

Rock/Hogan at Mania X8 shoulders a lot of the blame for WWE becoming the hauntological diminishing returns nostalgia show it has been for the last twenty odd years. There's a direct line that runs from that match to us getting Goldberg in a World Title match at the 2021 Royal Rumble.

[Chris B]

15 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

hugely influential on the Junior Heavyweight style that would follow, in terms of mixing high impact throws/suplexes with fast-paced acrobatic moves and strikes.

You don't get to Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask - and the entire NJPW junior style that is born from that - without Jones and Rocco. It's significant that Rocco was chosen to be Black Tiger, and Dynamite as Sayama's first NJPW opponent, following Sayama's stint in the UK. 

That's a great explanation, Pat. I was also trying to encourage (the other) Millard to do more than just state a match and leave, as the reasons are more interesting than the matches.

I didn't know that about the first opponents. I have no idea what Rocco's profile was like in Japan, and it's something I'd love to find out more about (and will look into).

[LaGoosh]

The two Undertaker vs HBK Wrestlemania matches definitely changed how WWE saw their main events. Both matches were epic and ever since it feels like they're desperate to recapture that "epic" feel. Those matches are now the template for most WWE title matches. Big moves and big kickouts with lots of melodrama. Problem is you can only go to that well with the right wrestlers and the right story which WWE rarely, if ever, has had since then. Big WWE matches rarely contain actual storytelling these days outside of following the HBK/Undertaker template. This has seeped through to the midcard too.

Hardyz vs Edge & Christian Ladder Match was probably the first high profile modern high flying stunt match where it felt like doing cool shit was maybe more important than winning the match. I feel like you can trace from this match through to the TLCs eventually leading to the rise of the X Division and spot based style that is so prevalent today. Almost every ladder match since this one in particular has its blueprints in there.

[Jackpot]

HBK v Undertaker Hell in a Cell at Badd Blood 97 because that started the falling from the cage phenomenon that Foley and Rikishi tried to one up over the next few cell matches. And while Michaels only fell from the wall of the cage onto the commentary table, it was the precursor to what was going to follow.

[TomJones233]

The Broken Matt stuff. It ushered in a fanbase that is in love with cinematic matches and had they not done THE THUNDERDOME, I'd reckion we'd still be getting them.

[Michael_3165]

Idd probably say the Ladder Match from No Mercy 1999 - Hardys vs E&C. It really kicked off the 'top this' mentality that over the years has shortened many a career. As stunningly superb as that and subsequent matches are, I can't help but wonder what impact that had on drug addiction of those who copied it for years after. 

[Kamaras-Tash]

I think even before the KOTR hell in a cell people were complaining about ECW and Tommy Dreamer & Brian Lee taking it too far where it was going to end up in Tommy having to die to satisfy the fans. Was only reading about it in Powerslam at the time but started off with a chokeslam through a table to 2 off the sound stage to 3 etc until it ended up with him going through how ever many from a scaffold up near the ceiling. 
 

 

[JNLister]

The first Guerrero-Malenko match in ECW. To be lazy and quote from some book by some guy:
 

Quote

If blood and guts wasn't your cup of tea, on the same show you could watch Dean Malenko and Eddy Guerrero putting together a series of matches that would be spoken about in the same tones as Brisco-Funk or Flair-Steamboat. Their final bout is the best known, but their first ECW contest (a thirty minute draw) is arguably the most stylistically influential US match of its time, at least in terms of independent wrestling. Guerrero was already a star within the Hispanic audience thanks to AAA's show on Galavision, but this match brought together New Japan junior-heavyweight style with lucha techniques to produce the blueprint for 'modern' American wrestling. The bout's finishing sequence, a series of reversed pin attempts, was not new (it had appeared in similar form in an Owen Hart-Danny Collins match in England four years earlier to give one example), but thanks to this match it is now used for a guaranteed pop on indy shows across the Western Hemisphere; nobody could actually explain why they cheer it today, it's just the done thing. What is sadly forgotten by the imitators is that in Malenko-Guerrero it played a logical part in the contest, which put across the story that both men were evenly matched, and this was their final desperate attempt to take the victory before the time limit expired.

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by JNLister

[theringmaster]

I always think the Hardyz v Dudleys Table Match at Royal Rumble 2000 is surely one of the most influential matches ever. I accept it was all stuff ECW done before but this bought it to mainstream audiences who had never seen anything quite like it before. I always see it as a point where WWE changed after in terms of gimmick/hardcore matches.

[air_raid]

Money In The Bank. WWE were always fond of surprises like unannounced Rumble entrants, but this marked a beginning of a serious shift towards an increasing amount of attempts by the company to keep the product exciting and “can’t miss” by doing something not on the scheduled format. Over the years, on top of an increasing number of briefcases and thus cash ins (three in 2010) we’ve been treated to Edge being inserted late into a match he wasn’t in by Vickie Guerrero (2008) and being allowed to enter and win an Elimination Chamber he wasn’t in (2009) John Cena being forced to defend the title unadvertised against Batista after surviving an Elimination Chamber (2010) and more recently Brock Lesnar appearing unannounced and winning a Money In The Bank he wasn’t in. I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that the “Raw after Mania” really had the volume turned up for shocks, returns and latterly NXT call ups since Money In The Bank started too, it was only used for that kind of thing sparingly before hand, thinking about Bret turning in 97, DX makeover in 98, Hunter and Stone Cold aligning in 2001 and not much else.

Also, it’s completely changed the ladder match. Before MITB a singles ladder match was usually two or three men, four maximum if you were really going overboard, usually fighting for a weapon to use or a prize (usually belt) for immediate gratification. You won what you were after there and then. With MITB you were fighting for a plot device - it’s the win BEFORE you win, the rest of the story happens later, be it later that night, the next show or six months time. Plus increasingly daft numbers of men are shoehorned in to enable multi man nonsense spots and dive pile-ons, and sometimes facilitate getting more men on the card. Have a look at Mania 23 - the two best heels in the company are in MITB. Moreover, seemingly every company in the West has implemented or embellished the concept, be it like for like, swapping the briefcase for a contract or other token, or - in true TNA “you had to go too far” fashion - Feast Or Fired. It’s a concept that has really sped up the process of pro wrestling being produced more like “episodes” than events.

Edited February 10, 2021 by air_raid

[theringmaster]

11 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Money In The Bank. WWE were always fond of surprises like unannounced Rumble entrants, but this marked a beginning of a serious shift towards an increasing amount of attempts by the company to keep the product exciting and “can’t miss” by doing something not on the scheduled format. Over the years, on top of an increasing number of briefcases and thus cash ins (three in 2010) we’ve been treated to Edge being inserted late into a match he wasn’t in by Vickie Guerrero (2008) and being allowed to enter and win an Elimination Chamber he wasn’t in (2009) John Cena being forced to defend the title unadvertised against Batista after surviving an Elimination Chamber (2010) and more recently Brock Lesnar appearing unannounced and winning a Money In The Bank he wasn’t in. I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that the “Raw after Mania” really had the volume turned up for shocks, returns and latterly NXT call ups since Money In The Bank started too, it was only used for that kind of thing sparingly before hand, thinking about Bret turning in 97, DX makeover in 98, Hunter and Stone Cold aligning in 2001 and not much else.

Also, it’s completely changed the ladder match. Before MITB a singles ladder match was usually two or three men, four maximum if you were really going overboard, usually fighting for a weapon to use or a prize (usually belt) for immediate gratification. You won what you were after there and then. With MITB you were fighting for a plot device - it’s the win BEFORE you win, the rest of the story happens later, be it later that night, the next show or six months time. Plus increasingly daft numbers of men are shoehorned in to enable multi man nonsense spots and dive pile-ons, and sometimes facilitate getting more men on the card. Have a look at Mania 23 - the two best heels in the company are in MITB. Moreover, seemingly every company in the West has implemented or embellished the concept, be it like for like, swapping the briefcase for a contract or other token, or - in true TNA “you had to go too far” fashion - Feast Or Fired. It’s a concept that has really sped up the process of pro wrestling being produced more like “episodes” than events.

This is a really good shout, as a follow up, when Edge cashed in for the first time at New Years Revolution. It really emphasized how important the MITB and made the match really exciting knowing anybody could do 'an Edge' and win it when the champ was tired after a long match.

[BomberPat]

17 hours ago, LaGoosh said:

The two Undertaker vs HBK Wrestlemania matches definitely changed how WWE saw their main events. Both matches were epic and ever since it feels like they're desperate to recapture that "epic" feel. Those matches are now the template for most WWE title matches. Big moves and big kickouts with lots of melodrama. Problem is you can only go to that well with the right wrestlers and the right story which WWE rarely, if ever, has had since then. Big WWE matches rarely contain actual storytelling these days outside of following the HBK/Undertaker template. This has seeped through to the midcard too.

I agree, but I think this came in earlier with Kurt Angle - his main event formula was very much built on repetition of finishes, and a ton of near falls. I suspect, actually, a lot of it came from Johnny Ace, and that kind of finishing stretch was his speciality as an agent. 

It definitely went into overdrive after Michaels/Undertaker, though, because those matches were so universally praised, and led to the inexorable melodrama of the Undertaker/Triple H matches, and practically everything Triple H has done since.

[Chasingamymatt]

On a different take what about Flair / Hogan double turn at uncensored 1999 & Austing Rock at Maina 17, Not for anything in ring work wise but as a wider context both had massively detrimental effects on the relavent companies bottom lines.

[garynysmon]

It feels to me that Savage v Steamboat at Wrestlemania 3 seemed to inspire a generation of smaller 'workrate' wrestlers who came through in the 90's.

When you think of it, such technically sound matches were quite a rarity in the WWF at a time when actual match quality generally counted for nothing in lieu of a good look and character. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by garynysmon

[Sphinx]

2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

I agree, but I think this came in earlier with Kurt Angle - his main event formula was very much built on repetition of finishes, and a ton of near falls. I suspect, actually, a lot of it came from Johnny Ace, and that kind of finishing stretch was his speciality as an agent. 

Rock and Austin before that too. Lots of finishers, using each other's, reversing each others, near falls.