Paid Members quote the raven Posted December 4, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 4, 2019 People will die by the tens of thousands if they ever try and move to end free at point of use nhs. Or millions would die if they ended concessions on medication. Anyone with any form of condition from blood pressure to asthma wouldn’t be able to get insurance due to existing conditions nor pay full pelt for the medication they would need. Any party trying to do that would removed from power and then cease to exist.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 You're talking about the government that deported black British citizens to their deaths, that enabled however many hundred thousand unnecessary deaths due to austerity. You think people don't die in America because they can't afford basic healthcare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted December 4, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, hallicks said: You're talking about the government that deported black British citizens to their deaths, that enabled however many hundred thousand unnecessary deaths due to austerity. You think people don't die in America because they can't afford basic healthcare? Your suggesting that a Tory government would preside over the death of possible tens of millions of it’s own people? By taking their medication and putting the prices to us levels? Knowing they couldn’t afford it.  The fabric of the country would collapse in days  Edited December 4, 2019 by quote the raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 22 minutes ago, quote the raven said: Your suggesting that a Tory government would preside over the death of possible tens of millions of it’s own people? By taking their medication and putting the prices to us levels? Knowing they couldn’t afford it.  The fabric of the country would collapse in days  I'm saying if you think this government wouldn't oversee the deaths of its own citizens in the name of ideological purity, you're wrong because its happened already. It won't be an overnight thing, it'll continue as it has done for a while, they'll make fewer and fewer procedures available on the NHS until you can barely get anything done at all, forcing you to go private. And someone will have the great idea of "well, if we need to go private to get anything done, why don't we all just get private healthcare?" And that'll be that. It's the tried and tested road to privatisation - defund it to the point it doesn't work properly so it can be handed over to private capital, what else can we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 The thing with tories and people with far right sensibilities is they believe that the government wouldn't come for them. Â Anecdotal I know but there are people who are voting tory who are on disability and PIP who think that they won't have to pay for their medication because they've got diabetes, so any reforms will keep that in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted December 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 5, 2019 8 hours ago, hallicks said: I'm saying if you think this government wouldn't oversee the deaths of its own citizens in the name of ideological purity, you're wrong because its happened already. It won't be an overnight thing, it'll continue as it has done for a while, they'll make fewer and fewer procedures available on the NHS until you can barely get anything done at all, forcing you to go private.can we do? But they only have 5 years? Even a Mri or Ct scan would run into hundreds of pounds so lord knows what an actual medical procedure would cost. The result is the same hardly anyone would be able to pay for it. The end result is still the same, any long term condition would be excluded from insurance claims, the people with something as simple as asthma would in all likely hood die. Thats 5.5 million alone minus a few thousand that could sell their home to pay for drugs and treatment. Likewise with type 2 diabetes roughly another 5 million.    Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, quote the raven said: But they only have 5 years? Even a Mri or Ct scan would run into hundreds of pounds so lord knows what an actual medical procedure would cost. The result is the same hardly anyone would be able to pay for it. The end result is still the same, any long term condition would be excluded from insurance claims, the people with something as simple as asthma would in all likely hood die. Thats 5.5 million alone minus a few thousand that could sell their home to pay for drugs and treatment. Likewise with type 2 diabetes roughly another 5 million.    This is where the insurance bit comes in. If you've got a standard policy, things like your inhaler or your insulin will be "affordable" but they'll likely introduce co-pays for every time you go to the doctor. Hospital visits costs more. So over there, the list price of an inhaler is something like $300. But if you have insurance, it'll get reduced to something like $20 or $40. But if you can't afford to get covered, then you're fucked. For our 2nd child, the total bill for my wife to give birth there (before insurance coverage) was in excess of $50,000. After insurance, we still had to pay about $1,700 (most of it went on credit card). If we'd stayed any longer there, I dread to think how much we'd have to have paid on hospital visits/medication for our kiddo with her epilepsy and ASD. Re: long term claims, didn't Obama make it illegal to exclude pre-existing conditions from insurance? Has trump rescinded that? I would hope it never gets like that here, that there would always be a provision for those that can't afford it, but if the last 9 years are anything to go by, it's the poorest who will suffer the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Raab, Patel, Skidmore, Kwarteng and Truss - "After the coalition", 2011, which argues for greater privatisation of healthcare. Jeremy Hunt and others - "Direct Democracy", 2005, calling for the introduction of an insurance based healthcare system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted December 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 5, 2019 10 hours ago, quote the raven said: Your suggesting that a Tory government would preside over the death of possible tens of millions of it’s own people? By taking their medication and putting the prices to us levels? Knowing they couldn’t afford it.  The fabric of the country would collapse in days  Yeah, remember all the riots when thousands of terminally ill people died just a fortnight after being found 'fit for work'? The public uproar from dying Brits being forced to spend their last days in interviews with ATOS? Nope, because most Brits don't give a fuck. https://www.theweek.co.uk/64973/thousands-of-people-have-died-after-being-found-fit-for-work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted December 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 5, 2019 I think it's less about people not giving a fuck as it being a slow Chinese water torture of unacceptability. I can't remember the exact quote, but someone was asked how the German people didn't kick off against what the Nazis were doing, and the point was that it didn't become beyond the pale overnight. It's a slow, gradual move towards that point. But if you don't think Point A is enough to storm the streets about, then Point B comes along and it's only a little worse than Point A...and so on and so on. If they'd jumped straight to Point E or F, there would be rioting in the streets, but doing it in increments, human nature is really just to think, "well is it that much worse than where we're at now?", because we're so quick to adjust to a new normal. But homelessness has risen by more than 100% under the Tories, homeless deaths at a record high, the "fit for work" insanity you mentioned. Think tanks have estimated 130,000 people died as a result of austerity policies since 2012. The NHS slowed to a crawl compared to other countries on its ability to reduce preventable diseases. Governments will absolutely reside over the deaths of their own people in the name of ideological purity (and austerity has always been an ideological choice), so long as there's just enough plausible deniability that government policy can't be directly blamed (i.e., Boris Johnson isn't actually out in the streets shooting the poors, so how is it his fault?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted December 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 5, 2019 Seen a few pieces on the effect of bad weather (next Thursday is looking snowy/icy/shit). Generally the theory is that it's small effects that cancel each other out, most notably Conservatives are more likely to do postal votes which are unaffected, but old people are more likely to be deterred (or prevented) from voting when it's a case of "physically can't get to the polling station" rather than "can't be bothered in the rain." However, one thing people are pondering this time is how it affects conflicted voters, specifically Conservative Remainers who hate hard Brexit but fear Corbyn, and Labour Leavers who want "Brexit done" but have an anti-Tory stigma. There's a theory that some of those who were flirting with voting for the "other side" might use the weather as an excuse to stay home and avoid making the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricc1PW Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 19 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said: Anyone else think It was Aphex Twin on the side of the Lib Dem’s bus or is it just me? christ. looks like The Fiend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted December 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 5, 2019 Just now, Ricc1PW said: christ. looks like The Fiend. it was a toss up between the window licker video and the fiend, but Aphex won for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted December 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 5, 2019 It's Seth Rollins laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted December 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 5, 2019 Â Amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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