Loki Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said: If your not sure how the party leaders fit with your own interests this is a quick table. This based on their voting records. You can look up the individuals via this website. Had to look at voting records separately to confirm before sharing - but here's the separate sources for those: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10999/boris_johnson/uxbridge_and_south_ruislip/votes  https://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?q=Jeremy+corbyn  https://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?q=Jo+swinson  I would urge a note of caution here.  As god as "They Work For You" is, you have to understand the concept of collective responsibility amongst MPs to really understand what someone's voting record means. I'll copy in here something I wrote for somewhere else.... Thought I might post this here, as it seems there's some confusion over aspects of our political system as it works in practice. I'm not defending or excusing anyone, but just trying to explain how important collective responsibility is to the smooth running of our particular political system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_collective_responsibility All members of any cabinet agree collectively on a policy platform and then all support that platform regardless of their personal view on each individual policy. You argue behind closed doors but then maintain public unity to ensure your government can actually enact legislation. In the same manner, you are expected as an MP to vote with your party on important issues (3 line whip)- it's called party discipline and again is vital for the functioning of government. If everyone votes individually on every topic you get - well, the chaos of the last 2 years. Our representative system requires collective responsibility to operate, it always has done. The Coalition govt was no different in that regard - once the coalition agreement was signed, both parties were compelled to support each other's policies that they collectively chose to implement. This meant getting wins on your particular passion legislation and the cost was supporting legislation you might not personally love, but try to influence as much as possible before it arrives to the House. So whilst it's obviously legitimate to criticise MPs on their voting record, you have to take it in the context of an MP's responsibility to their party and any government they are part of. MPs will, and probably fairly regularly do, vote for legislation they're not entirely comfortable with. What I find most useful is to look at how MPs vote on non-whipped bills, ones where they genuinely have a free vote. One MP described it to me thus - voting with the whip ensures your opinion is heard by the party. In their opinion (and they weren't a cabinet member at the time) their best way of influencing legislation was to work behind the scenes to shape it, and then take collective responsibility for it and vote for it once it comes before the House. You work with your colleagues in government, and voting against your own party or government reduces your influence and ultimately gets you kicked out of party and therefore government. It's a grown up system of compromise, and we should all at least try to understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted November 4, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted November 4, 2019 Interesting Twitter thread on why people are misunderstanding probability when it comes to the damage Brexit Party do to the two main parties: Â Short version: An average Leave/Labour voter is more likely to switch to Brexit Party than an average Leave/Conservative voter is. (Partly because Leavers are more likely to be satisfied with the Conservative Brexit position, partly because Brexit Party can be an alternative for Labour voters who have a cultural opposition to voting Tory.) However: There are far more Leave/Conservative voters than there are Leave/Labour voters. So even if they go over to Brexit Party at a lower rate, they'll do so in a greater quantity. (Of course, *where* these defections happens is a separate issue...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted November 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) Jo is thinking about taking legal action over not being invited on the first tv debate. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-50293808/election-2019-jo-swinson-threatens-legal-action-over-tv-debate Edited November 5, 2019 by quote the raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted November 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2019 There's already one Tory on it, why do we need another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted November 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2019 Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said: Â just an FYI this is a parody account. Funny none the less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted November 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) Stupid random thought: It's theoretically possible the Brexit Party wins a majority of seats in the Commons. Their leader isn't running to be an MP. Who would become Prime Minister? Obviously irrelevant in reality, but it could be an issue if you do a TV debate where the criteria is "logistically possible to be PM". Edited November 5, 2019 by JNLister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, JNLister said: Stupid random thought: It's theoretically possible the Brexit Party wins a majority of seats in the Commons. Their leader isn't running to be an MP. Who would become Prime Minister? If that happens we just bin democracy altogether and hand the reigns to whoever is the highest ranking General in the army. Plenty of nations are run by dudes in combat fatigues, one more wouldn't make much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 hour ago, JNLister said: Stupid random thought: It's theoretically possible the Brexit Party wins a majority of seats in the Commons. Their leader isn't running to be an MP. Who would become Prime Minister? Jo Coburn asked a Brexit Party MEP this very question on Politics Live the other day! She said they didn’t expect to win the election but floundered around. It was lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chunk Posted November 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) On 11/2/2019 at 4:04 PM, David said: I find that ridiculous to be honest. A political party wanting to just scrap the result of a democratic referendum and overturn it? Ironic somewhat that the definition of "Democrat" is "an advocate or supporter of democracy." They should rename the party the Liberal Dictators. That's actually a cool name, I'd vote for that party. They just do whatever the fuck they want and don't bother consulting the uneducated, Daily Mail reading plebs. How can a referendum ever be undemocratic? 2nd, 3rd, 90th time around ... a referendum is democratic by definition! Years have passed since the first referendum. Years we've spent trying to honour the result of that referendum. Enough time has passed and enough water is under the bridge to justify a second one in my opinion. It strikes me that the 'undemocratic' argument comes from people afraid of a different result the second time around. If people still want to leave, then we'll get that result again. The worst case scenario of a second referendum is that we get the result that the people want. Edited November 5, 2019 by Chunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chunk said: How can a referendum ever be undemocratic? 2nd, 3rd, 90th time around ... a referendum is democratic by definition! Years have passed since the first referendum. Years we've spent trying to honour the result of that referendum. Enough time has passed and enough water is under the bridge to justify a second one in my opinion. It strikes me that the 'undemocratic' argument comes from people afraid of a different result the second time around. If people still want to leave, then we'll get that result again. The worst case scenario of a second referendum is that we get the result that the people want. Not only are you days late with your quote, but you've completely missed my point. I said that a redo of the vote if a party campaigning on that won the election was perfectly fine. Overturning the original vote and just stopping the process isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chunk Posted November 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, David said: Not only are you days late with your quote, but you've completely missed my point That's the beauty of the quote feature. Means you instantly know what I'm referring to if I don't have the chance to read every post on the forum every day. Quote I said that a redo of the vote if a party campaigning on that won the election was perfectly fine. Overturning the original vote and just stopping the process isn't. It didn't read that clear the first time. Whatever though ... who is suggesting they would just scrap the first vote without a second referendum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chunk said: It didn't read that clear the first time. Whatever though ... Yeah, whatever... 4 minutes ago, Chunk said: who is suggesting they would just scrap the first vote without a second referendum? Them, I'm assuming. We were talking about the Liberal democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2019 PIPE DOWN YOU DON'T EVEN FUCKING VOTEÂ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: PIPE DOWN YOU DON'T EVEN FUCKING VOTEÂ Voting is for the plebs #AllCaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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