Paid Members tiger_rick Posted November 11, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 11, 2021 41 minutes ago, Shy Dad said: @tiger_rick Kenny's other partner was surely a hint at Ibushi? Shows how little I follow it. The fans they have will get it, that was clear, but if they're going to grow the fanbase, they need to cut out this nonsense. No problem with them bringing in anyone, but introduce them properly and accept that new fans you want to attract will only know them from AEW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted November 11, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 11, 2021 29 minutes ago, Infinity Land said: Having a camera man lingering in the shot of a camera already on the apron kind of gave away the ending. I noticed that and just thought how great it is to see wrestling presented that way, without pretending every camera is hidden. So maybe I'm just dim, but it didn't arouse my suspicions at all! 19 minutes ago, Gay as FOOK said: There's not a lot of times I sit there wishing they'd emulate WWE in their better days, but I felt like they could have dialled down the "How many undercard match combinations can we machine gun through this week?" stuff on this occasion and allowed some of the big angles more time to breath instead. Sometimes more drama and less wrestling is fine for a big go home show. I thought this one could have benefited from more backstage segments, more promo time in ring and especially more time for the contract signing. The reveal right at the end was so well done, but it could have been a fifteen minute segment rather than a seven. It felt like both guys were just getting their lines out, and the match is clearly bigger than that. I really felt this of all things should have been a slower segment. I disagree with that. I think the hype suffers all the time in WWE from the need to do what they do for a match people already want to see. I don't think this needed anything more. The promo earlier in the show with the announcers chiming in with their thoughts was outstanding and this was just the cherry on the cake. If anything, I wouldn't have done this at all. It's a horrible WWE trope to do a contract signing for a match we've known is happening for weeks. But whatever they did, it just needed to be short and sweet and that bit of heat at the end was beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 24 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: I noticed that and just thought how great it is to see wrestling presented that way, without pretending every camera is hidden. So maybe I'm just dim, but it didn't arouse my suspicions at all! There live they covered it pretty well by having 3 cameras hovering all over. But on TV there's the one early clear moment where he stood out like a sore thumb. The give away was once Omega and Hangman stand up. On the camera on Hangman's side another camera operator crossed to get behind Hangman and it just never made any sense from a filming perspective as the camera was already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted November 11, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 11, 2021 I’m delighted Callis is back. He and Kenny are such a great act. They completely worked me having Don slowly vanish the last few weeks. I was convinced them ending their relationship with Impact somehow meant he was gone. Similar to the Good Brothers, only I actually missed Callis. Hangman winning on Saturday will hopefully have Don on commentary, screaming in horror as his man’s head comes clean off. It was a solid show. Some really great wrestling, some solid hype and a hot angle to close to the show. They couldn’t make it more obvious that Kyle O’Reilly has agreed to come in, could they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 1 hour ago, tiger_rick said: Shows how little I follow it. The fans they have will get it, that was clear, but if they're going to grow the fanbase, they need to cut out this nonsense. No problem with them bringing in anyone, but introduce them properly and accept that new fans you want to attract will only know them from AEW. Meh, I don't think this sort of stuff matters with what you're talking about. I don't think it will confuse someone just watching that for the first time, and when/if Ibushi comes in then they will establish that properly, especially if they're working with NJPW. It was a little insider remark that popped the hardcore fans. No problem with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 11, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 11, 2021 No love for the carpark breakdown with Punk and Eddie? Thought it added to the drama. Thought it added to the PPV that they played short clips (especially as they are aware people wont see the road to and you tube stuff). Thought the Lio/Dante tag was fun. The Wardlow match felt off and thought him doing squash matches on Dynamite if they want to push him, could wait until after. Pac and Dax was really enjoyable as well. It was a good go home show, with a really fun contract signing, though like others I knew the cameraman was fake due to the other cameraman's actions, but thought Cutler, not Callis, so good surprise/reveal there. BRING ON THE PPV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted November 11, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Factotum said: Meh, I don't think this sort of stuff matters with what you're talking about. I don't think it will confuse someone just watching that for the first time, and when/if Ibushi comes in then they will establish that properly, especially if they're working with NJPW. It was a little insider remark that popped the hardcore fans. No problem with it I don't mind that one line. It's all that stuff over the opening match and then again during the Wheeler Yuda squash about Chaos, Okada, etc. It's meaningless to too much of the audience. Now if Okada or Ibushi come in, they'll do the old Butcher and Blade thing, I guarantee it. Again, at the moment, that's probably fine because it is a hardcore audience. But they want to grow that. I want them to grow that. And this stuff needs to be dialled down for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinc Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, tiger_rick said: Shows how little I follow it. The fans they have will get it, that was clear, but if they're going to grow the fanbase, they need to cut out this nonsense. No problem with them bringing in anyone, but introduce them properly and accept that new fans you want to attract will only know them from AEW. I actually think part of why AEW seem so much cooler than WWE is because they lean in to this kind of thing. They make it clear that AEW is a part of this big wider ecosystem that includes decades of stories across a million indy companies as well as Japan and Mexico. It gives a sense of canon and backstory that a two year old company would otherwise struggle with. The clips of skinny Punk and pie-head Kingston on a 20 year old IWA-MS card earlier in the show were a good example. Its quite an achievement, because when you actually sit and watch 90% of the indies/Japan it isn't cool at all. But AEW get the balance just right with little nods so it seems like this edgy underground subculture that the viewer should know about. I reckon if we were discussing this on a playground like we all did for Raw in the 90s, we'd all be pretending we knew who Ibushi was and in fact that our older brother saw Ibushi wrestle once at Goodison Park and he did a senton bomb off the scoreboard but the show wasn't filmed for some reason. Edited November 11, 2021 by Pinc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 11, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: I don't mind that one line. It's all that stuff over the opening match and then again during the Wheeler Yuda squash about Chaos, Okada, etc. It's meaningless to too much of the audience. Now if Okada or Ibushi come in, they'll do the old Butcher and Blade thing, I guarantee it. Again, at the moment, that's probably fine because it is a hardcore audience. But they want to grow that. I want them to grow that. And this stuff needs to be dialled down for that. I disagree. In WWE your career starts on there day 1.  Danielson, Punk, Owens etc didn’t have a wrestling career pre WWE in their world. AEW embraces their past and I think all the better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted November 11, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Pinc said: I actually think part of why AEW seem so much cooler than WWE is because they lean in to this kind of thing. They make it clear that AEW is a part of this big wider ecosystem that includes decades of stories across a million indy companies as well as Japan and Mexico. It gives a sense of canon and backstory that a two year old company would otherwise struggle with. The clips of skinny Punk and pie-head Kingston on a 20 year old IWA-MS earlier in the show were a good example. Its quite an achievement, because when you actually sit and watch 90% of the indies/Japan it isn't cool at all. But AEW get the balance just right with little nods so it seems like this edgy underground subculture that the viewer should know about. I reckon if we were discussing this on a playground like we all did for Raw in the 90s, we'd all be pretending we knew who Ibushi was and in fact that our older brother saw Ibushi wrestle once at Goodison Park and he did a senton bomb off the scoreboard but the show wasn't filmed for some reason.  Just now, Hannibal Scorch said: I disagree. In WWE your career starts on there day 1.  Danielson, Punk, Owens etc didn’t have a wrestling career pre WWE in their world. AEW embraces their past and I think all the better for it. I'm not talking about their past at all. Haven't mentioned Punk and Kingston once. I'm talking about the mentions of factions and people in other promotions that don't affect them. There's no need for it to be part of that opening match. There's no need to be rushing an association between Romero and Best Friends into the first 30 seconds of the show. There's definitely no fucking need to have a beloved babyface out there opposing Bryan Danielson! I'm happy that they're bringing in guys from outside. I think the commentators do a great job trying to get this stuff across. But there's no need for it in this instance, it's just an added complication that alienates any casual audience they might have. It also took all the focus away from Romero, who I thought did a great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 I've always been of the opinion that a company can't lean too heavily into imports when it causes the other attractions to suffer. I think AEW has done a decent job of not allowing that 'forbidden door' stuff to cause any issues elsewhere with other talent. I always use ROH as a prime example of losing their own way and relying too heavily on the New Japan connections etc. I think it has been pretty fun so far in AEW and you can see by where they are with the Hangman stuff that they haven't lost sight of their own talent. I will agree it's a very fine line though and as fun as it is they do need the focus to be on their long term attractions and trying to build their audience on the homegrown stars. I know that was a concern raised somewhere else - are they actually building the audience once they get casual eyes on the product with guys like Punk and overseas stars? It doesn't appear so. So I'm not sure how 'successful' it is to use crossover guys per se, but it's usually fun in the short term anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted November 11, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 11, 2021 yeah, I think the show is strong enough that audiences will follow along with that stuff. If this was WCW 2000 and people were dropping insider comments it's one thing, but when the quality of the show is high, audiences will have enough trust in AEW to think, "oh that must be important". It's like how in the Attitude Era the WWF would sometimes trot out Ernie Ladd as a wrestling legend because Bruno wouldn't speak to them and everyone else was in WCW - audiences who didn't know him, by and large, didn't go "who the fuck is this guy when he's at home?", they accepted that he must be important because they were being told he was. Similarly, when Page referenced Omega having fallen out with another tag partner, that's a nice nod to Kota Ibushi, but to anyone else watching who doesn't know about that, it's just "oh, there must be some history here". I suppose another analogy would be WCW bringing in someone like Tatsumi Fujinami and selling him as a major star in Japan - audiences will, generally, not overthink that, they'll just accept that he is a major star from Japan because that's what they're being told, and it stands to reason that Japan has their own wrestling stars too. It's no different to when they trot out a celebrity or sports star that's big in America but a no-name here, you accept that you don't know who they are, but assume they must be famous there because you're being told that they are. Or the American Top Team guys - if you don't follow MMA, all you really need to know is that they're a bunch of MMA lads, and because that's how they're presented, you trust that that's who they are.  The CHAOS stuff is a bit much, though, admittedly. Mostly because it's unlikely to ever pay off anywhere - maybe it leads to Best Friends getting booked on one night of Wrestle Kingdom, but I doubt it, and AEW aren't bring in Okada or Ishii to dick around with Wheeler Yuta - more than it being something from outside of AEW. It doesn't help that CHAOS are pretty meaningless as a faction at the best of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: I disagree. In WWE your career starts on there day 1.  Danielson, Punk, Owens etc didn’t have a wrestling career pre WWE in their world. AEW embraces their past and I think all the better for it. Danielson's whole deal from Day 1 in NXT was that he was an internet/indy darling though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted November 11, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 11, 2021 yeah, I don't think they're great examples - Owens story from his first show was that him and Sami Zayn were best friends and had wrestled all over the world together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieranjennings Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 And don't forget AJ Styles hardly came in as a nobody did he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts