Ashley Massaro Dead at 39

[mim731]

32 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

You know you are talking about a company which has helped cover up murders, turned a blind eye to basically pimping out its females and encouraged hazing among other things right? 

Allegedly. Not saying you're necessarily wrong in my opinion, but let's not start a libel case. 

[Whistling Skull]

38 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

When the crux of your argument is nit-picking about how you feel a woman (because that's the word when you're talking about human beings, not "a female") should or shouldn't describe her own sexual assault, and inventing out of whole cloth the possibility of her being "inebriated", you're not making the rational argument you think you are.

I read the affidavit she submitted to a court of law. I read her statement, these were to parts that struck me as untrue. I was asked to state them. There it is. Stating that I'm nitpicking suggests I should have just read it, took it as gospel. Why would I do that when it concerns an affidavit?  Don't try to guilt me about using the word "Female". Rape is horrible. I've known situations where males where raped. I've known situations wher females have been raped. Both are very different. That does not mean one is worse than the other.

The part about it sounding to me like she was inebriated had nothing to do with the discription of the rape. I read something people often say to cover up the fact that they partook too much, so a red flag went up. It doens't factor into any other part of the story. Just a red flag.

It is ridiculous to accuse me of saying she shouldn't describe her own sexual assault.  I'm glad she did so.  I just don't think she told the truth.

32 minutes ago, Chris B said:

When your opening point is to use the wording of a sentence to diagnose a disorder, and then to use that diagnosis to show she's lying, it suggests you're approaching this with one hell of a bias.

I never said that having a personality disorder means she's automatically lying. People that describe themselves in the manner she did (and actually mean it, at that moment) are lacking in the abilty to know how they come across to others or what is acceptable to say (about yourself) as per social norms. This helps paint a picture of the person telling the story.  An affidavit is per definition subject to scrutiny and the wording of a particular sentence can be important in nowing what kind of person you're dealing with before jumping to a conclusion.

[Chest Rockwell]

Come on guys. As soon as he referred to women as 'females' you should know you're not going to get a sensible discussion here. Unless you just really like hearing yourself talk you're wasting your time.

[Whistling Skull]

44 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

You know you are talking about a company which has helped cover up murders, turned a blind eye to basically pimping out its females and encouraged hazing among other things right? The whole reason it is plausible is because they are morally bankrupt.

So you're saying I should assume that everyone that worked in WWE in 2007 and knew about this situation is a liar, coward and terrible person. Because that's what that would make them, in my opinion. I'm very black and white in these thigns. Defending someone you know is a remorseless rapist or pimp or any other form of a person or enitity that is knowingly malicious and dismissive of the hurt it causes, makes you a horrible person.

I cannot (at this point) believe that everyone that worked there in 2007 and heard the story, falls in that category.

[Ricc1PW]

1 hour ago, Whistling Skull said:

@tiger_rick In her affidavit, she says that the Gary in question was Gary Hart, not Gary Davis. It confused me too, when the reports came out, but I double checked and she only mentions Gary Hart. He was the one that supposedly wrapped her in the quilt and carried her out.

@Hannibal Scorch  The fonts are gonna get all fucked up, but such is life. Here's a summation of some of my reasons.

I am also very friendly and personable by nature so I developed a strong rapport with the many veterans and active service members that I encountered in my work with the WWE.

In my experience, people who describe themselves in this fashion have a malicious personality disorder. Not "I see myself as a.." or "I've been told that I am...", but  just straight up telling the court what kind of person she is, in her own opinion. She seems oblivious as to how that would come across, in court or anywhere else.

While I was initially thrilled to have this opportunity, I began experiencing issues from the outset. At the beginning of the trip, I received harsh treatment from several men in Saudi Arabia, even while wearing a burqa. Maria Kanellis did not receive this type of treatment, so I suspected that it was related to my fair skin and light eyes. This made me very uncomfortable, but I brushed it off and was still looking forward to the tour.

This statement points to the same disorder. It seemed off that a female would say this amout a female co-worker, but i thought it was a stretch to call it an insult. I have discussed this with a female and came to the conclusion that there is a fairly large chance that this was all just put in there as a dig to Maria Kanellis. Conjecture at best, so let's move on.

Then, after we had arrived in Kuwait, I began to suffer from menstrual cramps. I had asked to rest in the Humvee, which was air-conditioned during a break, and the US Army soldiers insisted I was suffering from dehydration, notified Gary, and insisted on taking me to a nearby military base in Kuwait. I was told at the base that I needed an IV for dehydration. I protested but they insisted that I needed it and it was very common due to the hot weather.

Knowing her past, it is a lot more likely to me that she was inhebriated beyond a point she was comfortable with and it was actually her that claimed that she was dehydrated. As you probably know, this is not unprecedented. Gary Hart, having been around this business and it's excesses for a very long time, most probably saw the state she was in and arranged for the hospital stay (probably also claiming her to be dehydrated).

Another couple of hours went by and then a man appeared in the sickbay, dressed in an orange t-shirt and cargo shorts, and I had heard others comment that it was his birthday. He represented himself as a US Army doctor but I observed that all the other doctors at the facility had been wearing scrubs so I do not know whether this was true. He was with a woman who was dressed in full military fatigues. While I was still in the sickbay, he approached me and almost immediately administered an IV of an unknown substance in my other arm. Almost 6 immediately after, the alleged doctor and the woman in fatigues moved me into a room that did not appear to be a treatment room and placed me on a table. The woman guarded the door while the man proceeded to inject me with a drug that caused me to be unable to move my body or to scream. The man then proceeded to violently rape and sodomize me. I was completely helpless to defend myself against this attack as the drug he injected rendered me temporarily paralyzed. Despite being unable to control my movements, I remained fully conscious for every second of the attack. I felt excruciating pain as a result of this man penetrating me by force and against my will, in a violent and aggressive manner, while I was completely defenseless.

Each second that went by was excruciating and I have never felt more helpless or been more terrified in my entire life. The experience was a living nightmare. I don’t know exactly how long this went on for but if felt like an eternity. The suffering I endured far surpassed all the injuries I had ever suffered in the ring put together; I was experiencing not only severe physical pain but severe emotional and psychological trauma. I have always considered myself to be a fighter and survivor so I can’t even find the words to describe what it felt like to be thrown on a table and stripped and then brutalized in the worst possible way that one human being is capable of brutalizing another - all while being unable to move or speak. In addition to the pain and terror, I felt almost dehumanized, and was extremely disturbed by the feeling that I was somehow given to this man as some type of sick birthday present, and it also made me sick that the female soldier willingly guarded the door for him while he raped me without blinking an eye.

This took the cake for me. I have never heard a rape victim describe her assault in such a manner. Mostly because the kind of trauma we're talking is not something you'd compare to anything else. Comparing the pain of sexual assault to the pain of wrestling injuries is insane, to em. It seems to me she just tries to bring the story back aroud to the lawsuit against WWE.

There were also many people in WWE who I am very sure truly cared about Ashley. If this really happened, no matter what bitterness there is between them, I'd assume that Paul London or Matt Hardy would have spoken up. I think Reby Sky's comments on her would have also been a lot different if she believed the story and she's very close to the source. I also have a lot of trouble just assuming that everyone that was in WWE at the time and knows of the story is a liar, a coward and an allround bad person.

It comes down to this: If i'm being (what i consider) a rational adult, I can't take this story as the truth.

I've been lurking on this forum for a number of years so I've read my fair shit of tripe but this is one of the most ridiculous, pie in the sky posts I've ever seen.

not only has Ashley not been raped, she invented it, insulted Maria Kanellis by pointing out she didn't receive harassment (?!) had a 'malicious' personality disorder, and was inebriated! that is a hell of a leap to come to that conclusion.

and then, to end the post, you describe yourself as a 'rational adult' !!

Edited June 4, 2019 by Ricc1PW

[Whistling Skull]

6 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said:

Come on guys. As soon as he referred to women as 'females' you should know you're not going to get a sensible discussion here. Unless you just really like hearing yourself talk you're wasting your time.

Why can't I say female  :-/ ?

[Whistling Skull]

5 minutes ago, Ricc1PW said:

I've been lurking on this forum for a number of years so I've read my fair shit of tripe but this is one of the most ridiculous, pie in the sky posts I've ever seen.

not only has Ashley not been raped, she invented it, insulted Maria Kanellis by pointing out she didn't receive harassment (?!) had a 'malicious' personality disorder, and was inebriated! that is a hell of a leap to come to that conclusion.

and then, to end the post, you describe yourself as a 'rational adult' !!

I did not come to any conclusion. I don't believe the story.

If you're so willing to cease your lurking to jump on this, explain to me why you're so sure her story is true.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Whistling Skull
for clarity.

[Hannibal Scorch]

38 minutes ago, Ricc1PW said:

I've been lurking on this forum for a number of years so I've read my fair shit of tripe but this is one of the most ridiculous, pie in the sky posts I've ever seen.

not only has Ashley not been raped, she invented it, insulted Maria Kanellis by pointing out she didn't receive harassment (?!) had a 'malicious' personality disorder, and was inebriated! that is a hell of a leap to come to that conclusion.

and then, to end the post, you describe yourself as a 'rational adult' !!

Spot on. It's a leap so big it would make Dr Samuel Beckett proud.

[BomberPat]

31 minutes ago, Whistling Skull said:

I did not come to any conclusion. I don't believe the story.

You came to the conclusion that she was drunk.

You came to the conclusion that she has a "malicious personality disorder".

You came to the conclusion that she would take the time, during an affidavit about her sexual assault and treatment at the hands of WWE, to insult a co-worker for no discernible reason.

You came to the conclusion that Gary Hart attempted to cover up the "fact" that she was drunk.

You came to the conclusion that she wasn't raped, because you didn't like the way she described her own experience.

 

But aside from that, none at all.

[Joe_the_Lion]

2 hours ago, Whistling Skull said:

.

 

This took the cake for me. I have never heard a rape victim describe her assault in such a manner. Mostly because the kind of trauma we're talking is not something you'd compare to anything else. Comparing the pain of sexual assault to the pain of wrestling injuries is insane, to em. It seems to me she just tries to bring the story back aroud to the lawsuit against WWE.

.

 

Actually people who have been victims of either heinous acts or suffered in some other way that a normal person couldn't comprehend often compare their experiences to seemingly mundane day to day events.

 

You haven't heard it before because you're a dickhead who hasn't spent any time around such people.

[BomberPat]

46 minutes ago, Whistling Skull said:

Why can't I say female  :-/ ?

Because the word is "woman".

Female, as a noun, is dehumanising. It's clinical. It refers to the offspring-bearing sex of any species. It's removing a woman's personhood to refer to her as a "female" rather than a "woman", it's reducing her to a clinical category.

 

In other words, only pricks do it.

Edited June 4, 2019 by BomberPat

[Whistling Skull]

1 minute ago, BomberPat said:

You came to the conclusion that she was drunk.

You came to the conclusion that she has a "malicious personality disorder".

You came to the conclusion that she would take the time, during an affidavit about her sexual assault and treatment at the hands of WWE, to insult a co-worker for no discernible reason.

You came to the conclusion that Gary Hart attempted to cover up the "fact" that she was drunk.

You came to the conclusion that she wasn't raped, because you didn't like the way she described her own experience.

 

But aside from that, none at all.

-It came across to me that she might have been drunk or something else, because of the dehydration story. That it sounds like that to me, doesn't mean i regard myself as knowing for sure. With "She sounds like she was drunk" I do not mean "This lady was definatly drunk".

- I've been a social services worker in the prison with the highest security requirements in my country. Me linking people not knowing how they come across (in a high stakes situation like a court case) to a malicious personality disorder thing stems from my experience in that field.   It's a red flag that i take into account when assessing the entire situation.

- Not saying that she did, but the prospect of a settlement can be a very discernible reason to a lot of people on this planet.

-I never once said Gary Hart attempted to cover up that she was drunk. I said that if she was inebriated and was aplaying it off as dehydration, Gary Hart would have noticed. Mind you, we've established that there is a large chance that Hart wasn't even there and she was mistaking him for Gary Davis.

-I did not say i liked or didn't like her description of rape. How does one fucking like a description of rape?! I don't believe it to be true.

 

[Whistling Skull]

25 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Because the word is "woman".

Female, as a noun, is dehumanising. It's clinical. It refers to the offspring-bearing sex of any species. It's removing a woman's personhood to refer to her as a "female" rather than a "woman", it's reducing her to a clinical category.

 

In other words, only pricks do it.

You're just assuming I use the terms male or female to reduce her to a clinical category? You call me a prick for not saying 'man' and 'woman' in this instant. I must be some kind of chauvinistic asshole? Fuck you and your misplaced white knight bullshit, man.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Whistling Skull

[Joe_the_Lion]

6 minutes ago, Whistling Skull said:

.

- I've been a social services worker in the prison with the highest security requirements in my country. Me linking people not knowing how they come across (in a high stakes situation like a court case) to a malicious personality disorder thing stems from my experience in that field.   It's a red flag that i take into account when assessing the entire situation.

 

 

the first thing that your "experience" would have taught you is that you can't make that kind of judgement about a person you've never fucking met.

 

There's a red flag alright but Ashley ain't waving it

[Accident Prone]

2 minutes ago, Whistling Skull said:

You're just assuming I use the terms male or female to reduce her to a clinical category? You call me a prick for not saying 'man' and 'woman' in this instant. I must be some kind of chauvinistic asshole? Fuck you and your misplaced white knight bullshit, man.

And there's infraction number two. That didn't take long.