Paid Members air_raid Posted May 16 Paid Members Share Posted May 16 52 minutes ago, Pinc said: That Guerrero feud Austin was lobbying for when he shit the bed might have been his. Probably just that if he was going to be off the top spot for a bit because it was Hunter's turn, he wanted to have good matches. He'd had an underwhelming match with Jericho, had to deal with Scott Hall, his usual plodathon with Taker and had to work with Flair in a t-shirt and nWo Big Show. Steve Austin has always thought of himself as a great wrestler so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. He wanted to wrestle Benoit at Mania 18 when they thought "The Crippler" might be fit again in time, and when he wasn't, Steve pushed to get back in there with Kurt. The latter was busy calling up every Bret or Sting you can think of to put on something new and novel, and ended up saddled with Kane, so it's a show very few people ended up with what they wanted. Including me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted May 16 Paid Members Share Posted May 16 17 hours ago, Merzbow said: Taker was only ever as good as his opponent and even then he could drag a great right down, never raised the level of a bad worker. The complete opposite of "could work with a broom". Absolutely. I find it staggering that he's held as one of the all-time greats, when I don't think anyone has as unbalanced a ratio of length of run to quality of matches; did he have any good matches before Mick Foley showed up? And he's in some of the worst main event matches ever, regardless which gimmick he was using - handicap match with the Dudley Boyz, anyone? The disappointing part of the whole American Bad Ass run is that it did point to a better direction for that gimmick once he turned heel; his main event stuff was stinking out the place, but between his matches with Jeff Hardy, Rob Van Dam, Maven and Tajiri, he showed his worth as more of a gatekeeper and midcard bully. 1 hour ago, Pinc said: Its funny that all the ostensibly anti-workrate guys seem to be full on workrate pervs underneath it all. Its only really Rock and Austin who never had a Cena does a canadian destroyer moment. And probably just because they left before they had the chance. That Guerrero feud Austin was lobbying for when he shit the bed might have been his. Austin definitely had a workrate perv run; a large part of his heel run pre-Invasion angle was him wanting to prove his own with Jericho and Benoit, and later with Kurt Angle, all of whom were very much the workrate guys of their day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted May 16 Paid Members Share Posted May 16 Wasn’t there a Benoit TV match at the time, where Austin took ten consecutive German Suplexes? Absolutely mental when you think what a mess his neck would have been that late in his career. At least Cena just watched a couple of PWG DVDs and picked the funniest spots he could just about achieve athletically. Stone Cold workrate perv’d his neck into Choc Lick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 16 Paid Members Share Posted May 16 35 minutes ago, Supremo said: Wasn’t there a Benoit TV match at the time, where Austin took ten consecutive German Suplexes? I think that's the SmackDown title match from the build to King of the Ring. IIRC on Raw in Calgary he beat The Crippler by screwjob re-hash fake submission, then they had a rematch on SmackDown when Benoit looked like he had the title in his grip but Stone Cold pinned him with... I think the ropes, or could have been tights. Any corrections welcome, I'm working off memory there. This being around the time Benoit had the holy-shit dangerous cage match with Angle then the King of the Ring match which all conspired to turn his neck into a precarious stack of Malted Milk. ..... Taker really doesn't deserve this much discussion in this thread, surely? As one of the biggest names ever yet most notably divisive big time wrestlers of all time too, it's impossible to say that either "he's one of the best ever" or "he was totally crap" could be viewed as an unpopular opinion. Anyone think Chris Jericho's still got it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 15 minutes ago, air_raid said: Anyone think Chris Jericho's still got it? I think it's fair to argue he's definitely got something and there's a place for him. It's just not whatever the hell he's been doing lately. I don't think he needs to retire. I just think his contributions to AEW are far more negative now than they were before, and the way he's working with others isn't benefitting ANYONE - him or his opponents. And at that point you have to have a serious rethink about what you're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted May 16 Paid Members Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, air_raid said: Anyone think Chris Jericho's still got it? He definitely still has value but not as a prominent singles guy getting a push. I think the best use of him is in a lower/mid card comedy heel role of some sorts. He can still do the goofy comedy heel stuff to just as high a standard as ever (and it's always been his biggest strength) but I don't think he's got much in the tank left for anything else. It's basically impossible to take him seriously as a genuine upper card singles wrestler now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted May 16 Paid Members Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, air_raid said: Anyone think Chris Jericho's still got it? 1 hour ago, DavidB6937 said: I think it's fair to argue he's definitely got something Yeah, high blood pressure and one of the most punchable faces in wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm29195 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 20 hours ago, Merzbow said: Taker was only ever as good as his opponent and even then he could drag a great right down, never raised the level of a bad worker. The complete opposite of "could work with a broom". What about Batista? I thought he had his best matches with Taker by a long shot, or is that the exception that proves the rule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 16 Paid Members Share Posted May 16 Just now, jm29195 said: What about Batista? I thought he had his best matches with Taker by a long shot, or is that the exception that proves the rule? Batista wasn't a bad worker, though. I remember him having some decent matches with several other opponents. He wasn't spectacular - he had more rubbish matches than, say, HBK or Guerrero - but he could hold his own as a solid main-eventer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted May 16 Paid Members Share Posted May 16 The majority of Batista's prime was also during the Ruthless Aggression era where in-ring wise the roster wasn't particularly strong but in his big matches he usually delivered. Unless he was against Triple H, of course - probably the most overrated worker of all time. As for Undertaker, I agree with most the criticisms of him on here but I think a good Undertaker match usually tends to be really bloody good. I also don't think a loss to Undertaker ever really hurt his opponent either which is worth noting, even when he beat someone I think he made an effort to make them look pretty good. Strange how him and Stone Cold always had absolutely zero chemistry though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Was Austin ever really that great against big men? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 4 hours ago, Supremo said: Wasn’t there a Benoit TV match at the time, where Austin took ten consecutive German Suplexes? Absolutely mental when you think what a mess his neck would have been that late in his career. At least Cena just watched a couple of PWG DVDs and picked the funniest spots he could just about achieve athletically. Stone Cold workrate perv’d his neck into Choc Lick. I see a lot about Germans being dangerous, but I've always thought that's for the one giving it if they're bridging, and for the one taking if they're full on neck bumping it. The way someone like Austin takes them is flat, so I'd have thought it's like taking a back bump like what you'd take from a back suplex. Maybe I've misunderstood it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted May 16 Paid Members Share Posted May 16 17 minutes ago, Merzbow said: Was Austin ever really that great against big men? I don't think he really wrestled that many of them and Undertaker wasn't really considerably bigger than him. Really if you could halfway decent brawl regardless of size Austin could usually manage to get something good out of you. Undertaker was a good brawler so you'd think him and Austin would have worked but it just never did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 28 minutes ago, Sphinx said: I see a lot about Germans being dangerous, but - Neville Chamberlain, 1938. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 16 Paid Members Share Posted May 16 (edited) 42 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I don't think he really wrestled that many of them and Undertaker wasn't really considerably bigger than him. Really if you could halfway decent brawl regardless of size Austin could usually manage to get something good out of you. Undertaker was a good brawler so you'd think him and Austin would have worked but it just never did. I think they had a couple of decent Raw matches and the one at Cold Day In Hell was good, but they were all before Steve did his neck. I remember getting really excited for SummerSlam 98 because I thought it would be Cold Day In Hell again but bigger and it just... wasn't. Didn't help that they whetted the appetite in the build up for a full bells and whistles Attitude crazy distraction chaos-fest akin to Judgment Day, with all the (trigger warning - Vinceisms) "ARE UNDERTAKER AND KANE IN CAHOOTS" stuff, in the midst of a summer of crazy crossovers with Austin & Taker vs Kane & Mankind criss-crossing DX vs Nation and so on and so forth and the two of them just... went out and had a match. Edited May 16 by air_raid hellfire and brimstone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.