Paid Members Cod Eye Posted October 16, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 hour ago, tiger_rick said: We're talking about the lack of maverick players rather than technical ability. It's not an English thing though. The game's just changed. The old fashioned winger barely exists anywhere. The little maverick playmaker is completely different now. You rarely see players beating a man with a trick now, it's either about raw pace or working an angle to release someone into space. We've come on a bundle technically and tactically but too many teams on the World stage still do it better than us. Personally I think its because our players don't broaden their horizons and the pool of players is far too small. The pool of truly elite players is tiny. At grassroots level things are still improving. The FA introduced 5v5 for U7 & U8 age groups and 9v9 for U11 & U12 age groups which bridges the (too big) gap between 7 aside and 11 aside. They encourage more involvement for players and more touches which is great. At 5v5 and 7v7 too, players retreat into their own half at goal kicks to encourage playing out from the back. I've seen that work spectacularly with some outstanding players coming through the last few years. Unfortunately there will always be bad coaches and worse parents who are impatient with weaker players or too quick to try and "educate" players on the "tactical" side which is why you get stuff like not passing across your own goal. In their defence, the lesson can also be to protect the kid. There's nothing worse for your confidence than passing the ball straight to a striker to score. Coaching is complex. We've come a long way in the last 13/14 years that I've been involved but we're still light years behind places like Holland and Germany. We need far more education and less emphasis on winning at young age groups. I'd also ban parents from stepping within 40 metres of the pitch but sadly we've not go the space to do that! Edit: On the broadening horizons, I'm not sure if anyobne clocked but there appears to be a bit of a sea change on that front. Chelsea have been sending players out on loan in the last few years to Vitesse primarily but other clubs abroad. Noticed in the summar that Willock quit Arsenal for Benfica and Sancho left Man City for Dortmund. I wonder if the penny is dropping seeing players like Eric Dier succeed having being educated at a club with a great reputation. Good post that, cheers Rick! The main thing that I can personally see that has changed from when I was a kid playing in teams, is that the clubs(around where I live, anyway) are less about participation and enjoying themselves, and more about simply building the best team to win everything. I remember never being the most gifted player(eventually went in the nets), but the coaches made sure that I(and the other less able kids) got plenty of matches each year. Obviously the better kids played more or less week in, week out, buy the rest of us still felt like important parts of the squad. Now, if your not good enough, they don't even want to know you. My brother in law says the same. He was always their teams best player, and eventually went on to turn pro and is forging a really good career in the sport(over 200 league starts and counting, so must have something about him). He was asked to go back to the club he was playing for when he was discovered to hand out the EOS awards. He couldn't believe how elitist they had since become and how they were nothing like the club he remembers. There was a couple of other players in his team that were part of the lesser talented players group, but have since gone on to play in the Football League, so it shows that including them can give them a push to improve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted October 16, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 16, 2017 Hicks and Gillett takeover, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Danger Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Haven't they always been for sale? I sure the power drinker put them up for sale in his second year or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted October 16, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 16, 2017 I'm slightly concerned by that. Newcastle are well supported, with a big stadium. The right investment could see them shoot right into contention. I don't need yet another money bags club fucking my hopes and dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted October 16, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 16, 2017 Yeah I think Danger might be right, he's always been open to selling them (that's why he bought them, to make a profit) but just hasn't had an offer good enough for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Teedy Kay Posted October 16, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 16, 2017 The problem will be the cost of the club. They'll be over valued by Ashley and the investors will flinch. He'll want the money he's put in back, and what owner would pay that and then have to spend a shedload on players to maintain Prem status. The Championship is a much better investment opportunity, buy the club for less to invest more sooner. You'd be stupid to buy Newcastle for £200m+ when 50 could buy you a team and leave 150+ for club development. Depending on the price I think they'll struggle to get a buyer. Unless of course Vince McMahon is still interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted October 16, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 16, 2017 28 minutes ago, Teedy Kay said: You'd be stupid to buy Newcastle for £200m+ when 50 could buy you a team and leave 150+ for club development. Not when the revenues of a Premier League club are much richer than that of a Championship club- where you could also fail FFP regulations (which are very real in the EFL). It's a massive gamble ploughing that much into a Championship club surely? If you don't secure promotion then aren't you fucked? Can't see a club being able to justify spending £150m on development, which will surely contribute to a massive loss and therefore spending well outside their means (unless they are promoted quickly and secure that extra revenue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Teedy Kay Posted October 16, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 16, 2017 If you plough the money in sensibly and structure the team and playing style right it can work. Wolves getting Bonatini, Vinagre and more importantly for us Jota on loans with options to buy can negate initial outlay. QPR are the benchmark, and they just got fined. IF you go up, thats where the big money will need to spent. Getting up and having more money to spend on players than buying a Prem team, and in terms of Newcastle, an average one, may mean you spend more on the club and still have to spend that large amount to establish yourself and push for success. Bournemouth are great examples of this. I fear Ashley, being the cock that he is, will inflate the price so much serious investors will be put off. For me a team like Norwich at half the initial price would be a better option if available. EDIT: To add, if you buy well, and a player becomes 'proven' in the Championship, you also guaranteed of a return on the player in 3 years time to negate FFP again, the overinflated market price of English footie will always work in your favour in that regard. Long contracts are also a key aspect. If you take Neves at Wolves as an example, he signed for approx. £15 mil, but by signing a 5 year deal, the outlay is spread, meaning the 15 becomes 3 million a year with his wages on top. FFP is nothing to be scared of as the ways around it have been found out. Neymar at PSG sounds ludicrous at 450 mil in total. That spread over 5 years is basically 90 a year. Which most teams in the upper echelons can hit on a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieranjennings Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 17 hours ago, tiger_rick said: We're talking about the lack of maverick players rather than technical ability. It's not an English thing though. The game's just changed. The old fashioned winger barely exists anywhere. The little maverick playmaker is completely different now. You rarely see players beating a man with a trick now, it's either about raw pace or working an angle to release someone into space. We've come on a bundle technically and tactically but too many teams on the World stage still do it better than us. Personally I think its because our players don't broaden their horizons and the pool of players is far too small. The pool of truly elite players is tiny. At grassroots level things are still improving. The FA introduced 5v5 for U7 & U8 age groups and 9v9 for U11 & U12 age groups which bridges the (too big) gap between 7 aside and 11 aside. They encourage more involvement for players and more touches which is great. At 5v5 and 7v7 too, players retreat into their own half at goal kicks to encourage playing out from the back. I've seen that work spectacularly with some outstanding players coming through the last few years. Unfortunately there will always be bad coaches and worse parents who are impatient with weaker players or too quick to try and "educate" players on the "tactical" side which is why you get stuff like not passing across your own goal. In their defence, the lesson can also be to protect the kid. There's nothing worse for your confidence than passing the ball straight to a striker to score. Coaching is complex. We've come a long way in the last 13/14 years that I've been involved but we're still light years behind places like Holland and Germany. We need far more education and less emphasis on winning at young age groups. I'd also ban parents from stepping within 40 metres of the pitch but sadly we've not go the space to do that! Edit: On the broadening horizons, I'm not sure if anyobne clocked but there appears to be a bit of a sea change on that front. Chelsea have been sending players out on loan in the last few years to Vitesse primarily but other clubs abroad. Noticed in the summar that Willock quit Arsenal for Benfica and Sancho left Man City for Dortmund. I wonder if the penny is dropping seeing players like Eric Dier succeed having being educated at a club with a great reputation. I agree with most of the above but we overlook that the Dutch and the Germans very much care about winning at younger ages as they recognise that is the point of the game. However, their approach to winning is different The reason we don't create mavericks anymore is fairly simple. Its because kids do not 'play' enough hours any more. Listen to any great pro of the last 30 years and they spent all their formative years playing in streets and on parks against kids of all ages and sizes meaning they had to learn how to manage. There was also kudos to be gained by being the best kid on the street! Its why South America and Africa still produces players of this sort of nature as they still play in a similar environment. Getting kids as young as 8 into academies will not produce maverick players as there is no scope for personality. Young players shouldn't go into academies until at least 14/15 by which time they will have developed this at grassroots, schools etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, kieranjennings said: I agree with most of the above but we overlook that the Dutch and the Germans very much care about winning at younger ages as they recognise that is the point of the game. However, their approach to winning is different We care about winning. In the right environment though. In Grassroots, you'd be lucky if 0.1% of the participants ever troubled the pro game. Winning is barely relevent. 1 hour ago, kieranjennings said: The reason we don't create mavericks anymore is fairly simple. Its because kids do not 'play' enough hours any more. Listen to any great pro of the last 30 years and they spent all their formative years playing in streets and on parks against kids of all ages and sizes meaning they had to learn how to manage. There was also kudos to be gained by being the best kid on the street! Its why South America and Africa still produces players of this sort of nature as they still play in a similar environment. Can't disagree with this. But even if you still created the "street footballer", the game in Europe would knock the quirkiness out of them. No doubt Eden Hazard was Paul Gascoigne in his younger days. Now he's a better Joe Cole. Honestly think that's the game. 1 hour ago, kieranjennings said: kids as young as 8 into academies will not produce maverick players as there is no scope for personality. Young players shouldn't go into academies until at least 14/15 by which time they will have developed this at grassroots, schools etc I don't mind them going to academies at 8, I have a problem with it being exclusive. I think they should still be playing with their mates. Having fun until 12. 14/15 is too late. Can't imagine a time when that was ever the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted October 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 17, 2017 Good draws for the boys across the Irish sea- Italy and Croatia were the ones to avoid in the play-offs and they've managed to do so. Denmark VS ROI Norn Iron VS Switzerland Both have a decent chance. Switzerland are a good team but beatable, and Ireland just need to just kidnap Eriksen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 14 October 2017 at 7:19 PM, Shy Dad said: Hereford FC into the first round of the FA Cup, just knocked Eastleigh out today I believe two leagues above us. Give us Newport Shrewsbury or Coventry Monday please When Hereford came out the draw I thought "Here we go" but Telford is close by! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP RULZ Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Both should be relatively Happy Republic should be delighted (not that Denmark are pushovers but just in terms of the other teams they could have faced) and they have the home leg 2nd which should be an advantage, though saying that they went unbeaten away in qualification and won more points away from home then at home Think PunkStep summed it up perfect, Switzerland are a good side but beatable, think people see the 9 wins out of 10 and think they are better then what they are, they had one of if not the easiest qualifying group to finish in the top 2. Switzerland will start as Faves but N.Ireland shouldn't fear them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladiesman345 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Bit of a gutter for Slovakia. Did they not get a play off place beause they had the lowest points total of all the runners up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BigJag Posted October 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 17, 2017 Craig Shakespeare, the Leicester City Manager has been sacked. It is sad that after that fantastic season that the club seem to be in this mess. The players and the people running the club need to take a long hard look at themselves. I wonder what Ranieri is thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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