Random Thoughts III.

[Merzbow]

I'm not saying he should be a complete arsehole to them, just pointing out why his character wouldn't be over the moon to meet Joe Public.

[NoUseforaUsername]

They travel >300 days a year and a return flight from America to England and back is approximately 18 hours. The last thing I would want to do is go to an airport when I have no pressing engagement to be there and accost jetlagged strangers when they are getting off an airplane; they are human beings not commodities.

This is what meet and greets are for, to interact with the wrestlers in a controlled environment.

I've never understood the argument that because they are celebrities they must behave in a preordained fashion when meeting fans. They didn't necessarily become professional wrestlers in order to attain showbiz stardom; it's not like they are Kim Kardashian or Amber Rose, whose sole goal in life was to become famous.

IDK... maybe I'm just a curmudgeon.

 

[Polish Dad]

Nah, I'm not saying you're wrong on that, I was specifically bugged about the idea that all heels should act the same towards fans. Not even necessarily at anyone in this thread, it's just a thought that has consumed me night & day for the last 15 years, from back when it seemed very much like 'being a heel' was an excuse for acting like a twat to fans among a portion of BritWres, 

[Astro Hollywood]

Can't stop thinking about how, if the WWE's UK talent raids had taken place 5 or 6 years ago, Peter Staniforth would definitely be Raw GM by now. Audience filled with kids waving foam clipboards.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Astro Hollywood

[Kaz Hayashi]

Hahaha.

His muscle could have been a big lad calling people strawbs from a transit.

[Keith Houchen]

His office would be the pub, his mates would rush in and tell him how Ziggler was saying stuff backstage about him. 

[Kaz Hayashi]

“This is WWE signing off” from the red lion.

[dopper]

Does Tyler Bate changing his look bother anyone else?

 

That explosive debut on WWE tv back in January was perfect and his look was a big part of it. The blonde quiff hairstyle and old school moustache made him stand out a mile from anyone else. That is the look WWE still show when publicising his matches and his new action figure is like that too.

 

But a few short months later he appeared at NXT Takeover with mousey brown hair in that shaggy style that all 20 year old blokes have and the unstyled beard that goes with it.

 

Its not a huge thing and his consistently high level performances on WWE tv will keep him in high regard, but I felt like changing the look from something so different to something so generic was a shame.

[Coles84]

On the subject of fans at hotels/airports. I work opposite where the WWE stay when in Birmingham and normally you can always tell when it is house show day as there are a bunch of 40-50 people outside the hotel from mid day up to show time. Yesterday was a crap day weather wise in Brum but under this particular hotel there is a cover so there were still around 10 fans who I saw milling about for most of the day. When I left work, Seth Rollins had just pulled up in a car heading back in to hotel and these fans were all shouting his name but he ignored them all. On the way home I was thinking about it from both sides, from Seth's point of view he just probably wants 10 minutes of him time before working in the evening and getting in the zone and all that but from those fans perspectives as there were so few of them, would it have hurt for him to even just acknowledge them? Perhaps say 'hello' or 'Sorry guys, I'm needed inside' or even wave to them etc. I honestly don't know and can see it from both sides. I do find it a bit creepy to a degree waiting outside someones hotel but I guess if word gets out and people want a glimpse of their heroes it will naturally happen.

 

[BomberPat]

6 hours ago, dopper said:

Does Tyler Bate changing his look bother anyone else?

 

That explosive debut on WWE tv back in January was perfect and his look was a big part of it. The blonde quiff hairstyle and old school moustache made him stand out a mile from anyone else. That is the look WWE still show when publicising his matches and his new action figure is like that too.

But a few short months later he appeared at NXT Takeover with mousey brown hair in that shaggy style that all 20 year old blokes have and the unstyled beard that goes with it.

The other side of the coin is that "the English bloke with the old-fashioned hairstyle and moustache" is a description you can apply to Jack Gallagher, whose been featured on TV a lot more often. So, in a WWE context, it might be better for Tyler to look like a reasonably handsome hipster 20 year old, rather than inviting comparison to someone else on the roster. And, even on the indies, the "Moustache Mountain" name has taken a backseat to "British Strong Style" more often than not in terms of name value and recognition, and Tyler and Trent's gimmick isn't as reliant on looking like old-fashioned chaps as it used to be.

[Briefcase]

11 hours ago, Coles84 said:

On the subject of fans at hotels/airports. I work opposite where the WWE stay when in Birmingham and normally you can always tell when it is house show day as there are a bunch of 40-50 people outside the hotel from mid day up to show time. Yesterday was a crap day weather wise in Brum but under this particular hotel there is a cover so there were still around 10 fans who I saw milling about for most of the day. When I left work, Seth Rollins had just pulled up in a car heading back in to hotel and these fans were all shouting his name but he ignored them all. On the way home I was thinking about it from both sides, from Seth's point of view he just probably wants 10 minutes of him time before working in the evening and getting in the zone and all that but from those fans perspectives as there were so few of them, would it have hurt for him to even just acknowledge them? Perhaps say 'hello' or 'Sorry guys, I'm needed inside' or even wave to them etc. I honestly don't know and can see it from both sides. I do find it a bit creepy to a degree waiting outside someones hotel but I guess if word gets out and people want a glimpse of their heroes it will naturally happen.

 

From people I have met and know who have stayed in hotels (stayed, not wondered in looking) they have always got good pictures with the roster, including Shane McMahon. So I think it must be those waiting outside which you can kind of understand. It's slightly different at airports I think and even at the arenas, outside of a hotel just seems a bit desperate to me. If your staying there and happen to bump into them fine.

I do think a big problem with those in the WWE today is that they don't do enough in character with meet and greets, its all very generic, rushed and almost out of character. I'm not suggesting the heels shouldn't be polite or interact but even a small conversation teasing a kid who's favourite wrestler is John Cena (if say meeting The Miz) in jest would be amusing. 

Maybe some do it but can't think off the top of my head anyone that would. Even at say a Smyth store signings it wouldn't hurt for a heel to cut a small promo teasing everyone who have shown up.  

[Kaz Hayashi]

I disagree. Heels shouldn’t be going to toy stores to sign figures. Why would they?

If people are going to moan that not enough is done in character, then by all means do something like the face is signing the figures, the heel causes a scene, scripted kick off about there not being enough of his figure in store, face sorts him/her out. 

Another thing (and not exclusive to why people are cheered or booed, there are multiple reasons) but it could be said that If a kid or a mark gets an autograph from a fairly chipper heel in a toy shop, we can’t moan about fans cheering heels at live shows.

[BomberPat]

I fall somewhere in the middle on this. When it comes to kids wanting autographs, kids are natural collectors - if you do a show with a meet and greet, they're going to want an autograph from everyone. I've worked plenty of shows where kids will get their parents to buy them a programme, and then work their way through it trying to get a signature from everybody in it - like I said earlier, there are ways to interact with these kids and give them what they want while still working heel, but ultimately you want them to go away happy and come back next time.

Part of me thinks that, in an ideal world, heels shouldn't even have merchandise - the real villains shouldn't be flogging action figures to kids and making people want to buy their T-shirts. But it doesn't work that way; heels will always have their fans, kids will always want to buy the whole set (and you need the baddies for your John Cena to fight), and just because you're a heel doesn't mean that you shouldn't be entitled to the income from merch sales that the babyfaces are getting.

 

When it comes to public appearances, though - who the promotion chooses to put on TV talk shows, or send out to do in-store signings and whatnot, you'd think it would be just common sense to use babyfaces across the board. The kayfabe genie is out of the bottle, so I don't get too worked up about heels being out of character when they go on chat shows or whatever - and I can remember way too many cringeworthy TV spots of bad guy wrestlers trying to stay in character while interacting with daytime TV hosts - but it seems like a peculiar choice to put a heel in that position in the first place, when a company the size of WWE should really look at, "scrubs up well, would represent the brand well on TV" as a necessary trait for a top level babyface.

 

If a heel is doing a store signing, though, they absolutely should be in character to a point. Randy Savage used to say that they don't pay to see you on your day off. They want to see you in as close to full gimmick as you can get away with, not just sitting there bored in a company-mandated WWE polo shirt. Part of that is, for a heel, being a bit of a dick, not so much as to upset anyone or ruin their day, but enough to make them feel like they got something from you, that they were part of the show - asking them who their favourite wrestler is and freaking out when it's not you, mocking the babyface wrestler at the same signing, even just doing an over the top grimace in photos rather than smiling; expressive enough that it's obvious that you're doing it on purpose, and not just genuinely miserable about getting your photo taken with this kid.

One of my favourite bits of heel fan interaction was at a CHIKARA show. Someone was getting a photo taken with one of Los Ice Creams, and the wrestler just walked away seconds before his mate had taken the photo. They asked for him to come back, and he just shouted back "FIX IT IN PHOTOSHOP!". Lovely stuff.

[Kaz Hayashi]

I fully understand, but kids in their nature want everything and sometimes it’s better for them to be told ‘no’. The horse has potentially bolted and because WWE have given them everything they want in order to make an extra quid, maybe there isn’t away to turn it back.

Now again going back to earlier points, bumping in to wrestlers at airports and official arena meet and greets or what ever, I much prefer the sound of a heel being in character. The story I told Tommy Rich and the one you mentioned about Los Ice Cream is exactly what I believe should happen. By all means give the fan a show, sign his photo or whatever, but ham the fuck out of it and sign 1 or 2 at the most. Keep the Aura of being a villain. Make the autograph hunter work for it at the very least.

Sitting down at a toy shop smiling and signing bobble heads, na, fuck that.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Kaz Hayashi

[BomberPat]

There was another old CHIKARA guy, Prakash Sabar, who had a gimmick where he was impersonating X-Pac. He'd go around the room trying to "Too Sweet" people, then pull his hand away at the last second and refuse to do it unless you bought merch from him. I ended up buying a photo from him, and he purposefully signed the wrong name on it.

It's about hamming it up, absolutely. Like I said, they don't want to see you on your day off - if you're at a show, you shouldn't be in character just when it's time for your match, you're "on stage" the moment anyone in the crowd can see you, whether you're in the ring, wandering around the room, stood at a merch table, or you bump into a fan in the queue for the loos. You should always be playing a part whenever. It's different when it comes to being spotted in a hotel or airport or whatever - then, I'd just say politely let them take their photo and get on with their day, but if it's a young kid involved, at least make some effort to kayfabe them a little. I've worked a bunch of hotel shows where all the guys will go up to the bar after the show, and there'll be kids around that watched the show, and they'll have a ton of questions, and usually they'll bring up that face and heel wrestlers are drinking together - it's actually a lot of fun trying to work those kids, and come up with answers to their questions, and keep up that you hate a guy who actually just bought you a drink, or whatever.