Smackdown Discussion Thread

[air_raid]

I saw some of SmackDown tonight and Evil Becky is definitely my favourite part of the show. It was still weird listening to the commentators talking during the Charlotte match as though she's the wronged party, there is no character in the whole Universe right now that I'm cheering for more in their story than Lynch. "The Queen" is a smug twat who needs taking down.

[Supremo]

Well, they made their intentions clear with that main event segment. They don't care who the fans want to cheer or boo and they don't care if their own set-up completely backfired, they're going to push forward with the idea that Becky Lynch is the heel and Charlotte is the babyface. It'll probably work in the long run, but personally I would've gone with the fans rather than actively fighting against them. Surely they've learnt their lesson with Roman regarding this. Obviously that's the worst case scenario, but still. Even in the best case scenarios, you're always going to get a louder, more legitimate reaction if you go with the natural flow of things. They have a hard enough time creating babyfaces that truly connect with the audience as it is, the last thing you'd think they'd want to do is ignore moments where the fans handpick who they want to support. Also, they run the risk of Becky being so good as a heel that there's still every chance this isn't going to work. If anything, the more heelish she acted here the more she veered into Conor McGregor territory where it no longer mattered how much of a prick she was acting, she was pissing so much charisma, clearly having so much fun, and what she was saying was so funny and entertaining that it was impossible not to love her regardless. Put the belt around my waist? Call me The Queen? Beat fuck out of Charlotte and just stroll away? Brilliant. That was my biggest takeaway here. She's gone from Stone Cold Becky Lynch to The Notorious Becky McGregor. She's going to start wearing outlandish suits next.

Half the problem lies in how Charlotte won't just hold her hands up and apologise for her behaviour in the run up to Summerslam. To rock up out of nowhere and allow yourself to be inserted into your best friend's big opportunity is the actions of a shit mate. A decent friend would've stepped aside and refused the shot. That's something that this feud has really highlighted; those in the writing room can't even recognise snide behaviour when they script it, probably because of how warped that lot are. Every description of their writing process suggests it's all about doing whatever you can to please Vince and get your stuff past him, completely cut-throat and political, so it's no wonder they all think Charlotte is the babyface in all of this. They're probably a bunch of snide pricks themselves. That'll be what harms them in the long term. Even if you get the fans to boo Becky, if you don't understand why they didn't side with Charlotte in the first place then she'll end up becoming the female Roman and you'll find yourself spending a fortune on blue contact lenses trying to salvage her.

There's shades of it in Samoe Joe vs. AJ, too. A decent babyface wouldn't have just shrugged and said, "Ref's decision is final, I guess this is karma, LOL," like AJ did when asked about that finish at Hell In a Cell. A noble bloke would've said he was taking it as a loss since he tapped before the three count. Joe's obviously the heel considering everything else that he's done, but in this instance he's totally in the right to be furious and I find it fascinating that in their minds being angry about losing, much like Becky was, automatically makes you the baddie. If it wasn't stupid enough when Road Dogg was waffling on about wins and losses not mattering on Twitter, they're now slotting their babyfaces and heels in accordance to if they care about winning or not. Everyone should just shrug everything off, or else they're a heel. That feels like a very dangerous, stupid route to go down. Like their toxic culture is now bleeding into their product.

However, all this being said there's absolutely no denying that this Becky vs. Charlotte thing feels big time. Almost entirely thanks to how Becky has upped her game, this feels like main event stuff. For all the times they say that there's this big women's evolution or whatever, this is the first time the women's stuff has felt important in a long, long time. I can't believe Becky had this in her the whole time she's been on the roster. It's incredible.

[air_raid]

Who'd have thought they'd not see it coming that they could tell a story for weeks designed to make their fanbase want the popular babyface to win the title then at the last minute pull the rug and go "Actually, you should be happy this less popular babyface is winning instead with a tenth of the story involved" and for said fans to go "What?? Fuck you." They really over-estimated Charlotte's support thinking people would want her to be champion over another hero, especially one so horrifically backburnered basically since Alexa lost to Naomi and they started using Becky to do clean jobs to losers like Nattie to prepare them for the latter. People cheer Charlotte because she's good, they cheer Becky because they LIKE her, and that's an important difference.

I've been rattling around in my brain potential explanations and I think I've got one ; they've peddled the (accurate) rhetoric so often that the best bad guys always think they're in the right, that they wrote the scenario to give Becky believable justification for her "evil" actions. Unfortunately they forgot that your villain usually sees the world differently to the way it is, to the point of delusion, or at least as a moral stance deemed questionable to the bulk of the rational bystander. And Becky IS justified. They were going for "sore loser"/"petulant child" but the reality of Charlotte getting preferential treatment and fucking her mate over as though it's ok not only makes us sympathetic to Becky but probably goes close to the bone for many who've been in her shoes. Nobody sees that from Charlotte's perspective and decides she's their dog in this fight. That's not even considering the Romanesque "anyone but you" factor for the boo boys, though I'd rather concentrate on "you told a shitty story" than "I wish you'd push someone else."

4 hours ago, Supremo said:

Beckie

............ why, though?

[Supremo]

Fixed! 

[tiger_rick]

I get that it's not easy for them because somebody has to be the heel and with the fanbase they've lumbered themselves with, there are factors outside of the character being portrayed on TV that decide who fans do and don't like. It's a bit like ECW in the mid-90s. Despite the revisionism from some numpties these days, Paul E. was always fucking brilliant at this stuff and worked with it. They just don't have anyone with that nous in charge and if they did, they'd still have to bow down to Vince's refusal to let anyone else be right. But regardless, Stevie Wonder could have seen this coming. Charlotte is the most disliked of the "horsewomen". She is an obnoxious babyface anyway. She calls herself the Queen for fuck sake. How they thought this would ever work is beyond me. How they continue to try and force it astounds me. And is not like they don't have tens, if not more, examples to call back on for why this shit just doesn't fly.

Surely its wrestling 101. If you are going to turn a babyface, you have to have another babyface that people care about as much or if not more and will sympathise with. If this sloppy cunt of an angle was a flow diagram, Q1 would have been "Do the audience sympathise with Charlotte?" with two possible answers. "NO" and "DO THEY FUCK".

[The King of Old School]

It amazes me that people are still surprised by this sort of thing.

You would think the last 12 years of Cena and the last 4 years of Roman would tell you exactly what they would do with Charlotte & Becky.

On a side note though, Ronda/Becky at Survivor Series as part of the red shirts vs blue shirts debarcle? I'd take that!

[BomberPat]

1 hour ago, air_raid said:

Who'd have thought they'd not see it coming that they could tell a story for weeks designed to make their fanbase want the popular babyface to win the title then at the last minute pull the rug and go "Actually, you should be happy this less popular babyface is winning instead with a tenth of the story involved"

This is key. The entire story was about Becky's redemption, giving the fans a logical emotional climax to that story, and they robbed the fans of that climax - that's the definition of a heel finish. That they did it by having Charlotte inserted into the match late in the day, and then basically stealing the win from Becky, I really can't fathom how they could have expected people to side with Charlotte at all. 

That said, hearing Charlotte cut promos about how "this isn't a game where everyone gets a participation trophy", it just seems like typical Vince McMahon grumpy old man nonsense. 

[air_raid]

1 minute ago, BomberPat said:

That said, hearing Charlotte cut promos about how "this isn't a game where everyone gets a participation trophy", it just seems like typical Vince McMahon grumpy old man nonsense. 

Fucking rich considering they gave Natalya a run between Naomi and Charlotte for no other obvious reason than "has been here forever."

[Jazzy G]

1 hour ago, The King of Old School said:

It amazes me that people are still surprised by this sort of thing.

You would think the last 12 years of Cena and the last 4 years of Roman would tell you exactly what they would do with Charlotte & Becky.

On a side note though, Ronda/Becky at Survivor Series as part of the red shirts vs blue shirts debarcle? I'd take that!

I wouldn't say all the last 12 years of Cena, towards the end people loved him, but did the whole "John Cena Sucks" thing because it'd become the done thing like when they used to chant "You suck" at babyface Kurt Angle. He knew what he'd become, especially in the last couple of years, started playing up to it and won the crowd over.

[Fatty Facesitter]

Smackers is absolutely streets ahead of Raw at the moment in terms of entertainment factor. Lots of interesting storylines and - crucially - it does that sneaky old trick television programmes sometimes do where they leave you actually wanting to tune in the following week/for the next episode so you can get your next fix. Funny how that works isn't it? It's nice to actually WANT to tune in and watch a show rather than watching it through force of habit. 

Supremo's thoughts on Becky said it better than I think anyone ever could, great post. I think another frustration is that with Charlotte, you've actually got a fantastic heel there ready and waiting to be presented to us. As people have said, she calls herself the Queen and even during this babyface run she's retained something of a holier than thou attitude. Why not accentuate that again? Maybe once this feud with the Notorious Becky Lynch is done. 

The one thing I took from this show is that they've tried to play on people's emotions in a big way. Like how uncomfortable you felt when Bryan accidentally knocked Miz in to Maryse, only to turn around and smirk before Miz tried to attack, the way Lana screamed in despair at English turning on Rusev, Joe's ambush on AJ, the entire Becky/Charlotte feud, etc. A TV show playing and preying on human emotions? I'm in. 

It was the right time for Rusev and English to go their separate ways and I think it's definitely a positive change, with both guys on what I'd say is the right side of the good/evil divide. This is a big opportunity for English now and I'm looking forward to seeing how he grows in the role. As for Rusev, while they'll need to play out the revenge factor a bit I hope they keep hamming up the comedy element with him because his personality is one of the things that makes him so unique. WWE has so few genuinely funny performers now, they'd be mad not to capitalise on that. 

Orton is BRILLIANT in this role. I can understand why people would be initially turned off at having him back at the top of the card and falling into the Dolph Ziggler trap of multiple rematches and monotone opening promos, but his promos since this turn have been career bests, he can clearly still hang in the ring and the way he makes an audience openly squirm and weap is truly wonderful. He's rapidly becoming a heel people become genuinely frightful of. That backstage bit was great - another example of them doing something in a slightly different setting and it made a lot of difference. And again, the line at then end where he hints at his next victim...who is his next victim? Well I'd better tune in next week then to see who he's referring to then hadn't I? You cocktease. 

AJ/Almas had a cracking little TV match. The more I think about it the more I like that AJ was shown to be tapping at Hell in a Cell even if it makes him look a bit weaker. Joe attacking him and screaming in his face ("You know the truth!! You know the truth!!! You'll never be safe!!!") was fantastic. Again, I genuinely want to tune in next week to see how they keep playing out the tapping out thing. Will AJ finally snap and address it and admit he tapped or will Joe have to keep goading him? As I predicted pre-HIAC, they are steering away from the family angle now and this firmly opens the door for the potential Joe title switch. 

 

[tiger_rick]

I just wish that they'd protect Almas more. He's absolutely trmendous and I'm sure this was another cracking TV match but I don't like that he loses. They could easily leave it open-ended so there's a seed of doubt that he's on AJ's level. If you want AJ to have some strong wins, use an English or Dillinger or an Uso or someone. Almas has too much potential.

[Mr Butternut Squash]

They've resisted the flow of fan reaction for ages now, I mean they do it ALL THE TIME. This one hurts because the women's division doesn't exactly have depth. Lynch is phenomenal and has always been more over than her push, Flair is . . . Well lets just say she's a great heel. She's a Flair for fucks sake. She's won't become the female Reigns. She's not a strong enough talent to push through boos, frankly. If they continue to grow they'll buckle and turn her fairly soon I think. 

Smackdown was otherwise top notch as usual. Surprised some people are cooling on Miz/Bryan. Maryse is as brilliant as Brie is mediocre. Her and Miz are electric together. You see that fucking obnoxious head bobbing thing they did to acknowledge each other during Maryse's entrance?  That's a chemistry you can't script. Dropping involvement of the wives and taking the first steps to get into the world title picture came at just the right time for the feud.

 

 

[WyattSheepMask]

While I’m sure that they’ll have another blinding match, I don’t get why they’ve gone with ‘No DQ, No Count Out, Must Be A Winner’ for Styles and Joe at this Australia show. Theoretically, what happened at Hell In A Cell could happen again despite that stipulation, not that you would think that they would book the same finish. They did Last Man Standing in the AJ/Nakamura feud, so could have maybe gone with an I Quit Match in this one.

When did they last do a big I Quit Match? 

[The Gaffer]

I'm enjoying where Orton's going, and I want him to go there even more. It's possibly his last hurrah at this stage in terms of him being a full time TV character, and if they want to push him to the moon with that, then I'm all for it as long as things stay fresh and exciting. Orton's a proper star, burning just behind Batista in the Cena orbit. Plus I seem to quite like him as a dude. His one weakness has always been his complacency to let his character be written for him, but things are obviously working right now.

I'd rather a vet from an era people aren't too nostalgic about yet was at the top of the card trading title wins from now until WrestleMania than nearly anything else they could do. It seems the time, and it seems right. Batista's never going to do more than a few matches a year, at best, and Cena coming in and getting battered all the time is more sporadic now than ever. Orton should be on that elevated plane where to beat him truly means something, by all rights.

He's Ruthless Aggression legacy, and regardless of what people think of that era it's healthy for history to see its limited stock being used to elevate the current generation. I know it gets a bit of love, on here, but a lot of fans seem to have this mental inner narrative that when the invasion ended, nothing much happened until CM Punk sat on his arse and done a worked shoot. 

Well... if only him booked in the worst places at the worst times being a lazy sod for years and years didn't sully virtually everything I've said above. 

[LaGoosh]

For years WWE have banged on about how they listen to the audience, and how they don't need focus groups because they have a live audience to listen to...if the past 3 years have shown anything is that they don't actually give a fuck about how the audience reacts. 

My theory is they want to keep Charlotte face for the Rousey match. So they can do a fucking boring babyface vs babyface match at Wrestlemania where they tell each other how much they respect the other. Probably making it the Wrestlemania main event so they can spend weeks smugly patting themselves on the fucking back about how progressive they are when really Charlotte is a born heel (it's in her blood for Christ's sake!) and a heel Charlotte vs babyface Ronda is definitely the way to go.