Joey Joe Joe Jr Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Shortorder put what I wanted to say in better terms. Â And agreed with Powerbutchi. Only the other day I was thinking of the Shillinger/Beecher storyline which was the central, ongoing feud throughout the whole show; it perfectly captured the escalation of stakes and hatred that pro wrestling is supposed to be, with each character evolving as they trade shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted December 20, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Obviously you don't do it to the exact same model as TV drama, but there are things wrestling can take from that. As it stands, there's zero character development in wrestling. It's all week to week, with shit getting ditched all the time or things thrown out there in a panic because ratings are down. Â As for Pitcos' comment here: Â How do you balance that, though, with having to sell a pay-per-view every month and doing stuff every week that makes five thousand hicks of all ages boo or cheer? Â ...to further stretch the TV analogy, that's no different from how cable shows are written, with a medium-sized cliffhanger or attention grabber before each ad break, a bigger one at the end of the episode, and a huge one in the season finale. There's no reason wrestling can't have storylines that go week to week and month to month, with little reveals, twists and draws happening wherever, be it on the end of a Raw to keep people tuning in next week, or on the PPV go-home show to get the buys in. That's how serial drama works anyway. When the main bad guy dies on the last episode the season (call it their Wrestlemania), the show doesn't reboot and start from scratch, but other things that have been festering get brought to the fore, and the story evolves naturally. The way wrestling does this is just have whoever's next on the list to face Cena/Whoever attack him on the ramp out of the blue. Â Long-range storytelling in wrestling is awesome. That dirty look Savage gave Hogan when he picked up Liz that festered for a fucking year. Or Virgil's turn on DiBiase. Or Batista's turn on HHH. For years, it's all been so flat and week to week. It feels thrown together, because it probably is. Look at how fast they pulled the trigger on Punk's stealing the title. Gone for all of 2 weeks. Â You can still do all the typical wrestling stuff that makes people boo, cheer and buy t-shirts, but give me some fucking storytelling that hooks me in. It's not like that would turn the kids off. Kids like the angles, but they're all about the matches. I'm sure the kids fucking love those excruciating 20 minute in-ring segments with Vickie and AJ that go fucking nowhere. Use that time to do something good. Â I still maintain that the greatest pro wrestling TV show of all time was Oz. That drama was pro wrestling at it's utterl best. Â Fuck yes. Bring in a development guy, have him be the Beecher to some guy on the roster's Shillinger, give it a year, and watch the roof come off when the NXT prag finally shits in his mouth. Edited December 20, 2012 by Astro Hollywood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted December 21, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Great post there Astro. The TV drama format definitely lends itself to wrestling. It's amazing how much tv time WWE have and that it's not used in this way. They have a hell of a roster of talent that goes to so much waste. How much, for example Kofi Kingston, has been on tv and for so long with basically zero character development is ridiculous. Â Long-range storytelling in wrestling is awesome. That dirty look Savage gave Hogan when he picked up Liz that festered for a fucking year. Or Virgil's turn on DiBiase. Or Batista's turn on HHH. For years, it's all been so flat and week to week. It feels thrown together, because it probably is. Look at how fast they pulled the trigger on Punk's stealing the title. Gone for all of 2 weeks. Â A thousand times this. It's always been what works best. And they have all the resources at their disposal to make it work. Another recent example would be the Shawn Michaels - Undertaker WrestleMania story, mainly from December to the following 'Mania (26) but really, the overall thing spanned about 3 years. Ok, it wasn't weekly episodic but it remained consistent when they rarely happened to be in the same place at the same time and it's no surprise it's one of the more enjoyable stories of the past half-decade. As i mentioned before i adored the 'Highway to Hell' Undertaker-Kane incahoots angle that spanned and evolved over practically the entire year. There was so many tremendous twists and turns and cliffhangers in that story and it greatly helped develop and establish several characters. Produced easily one of the most exciting summers WWE have ever had. It was fucking brilliant. Â I disagree that wrestling is really only suited to being made for kids, as i believe this format suits wrestling perfectly. And as mentioned, things like The Dark Knight and Lost are pure pro-wrestling and they massively appeal to an older audience too. I'm not familiar with Oz but, i think the first couple of seasons of Lost would be a great model for a brand new wrestling show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted December 21, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 If you really want to compare wrestling to Oz, look no further than bringing the man in the middle back to the business: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted December 21, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 i think the first couple of seasons of Lost would be a great model for a brand new wrestling show. You're going to have to explain that one to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted December 21, 2012 Awards Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) You've got a point with Undertaker-Michaels, ShortOrderCook. For me, that storyline started at Royal Rumble 2007 and didn't end until WrestleMania this year with Triple H involved too. Like you say, it wasn't featured every week - or even every month! - but everything followed on from the last thing, with twists, turns, development and, finally, the perfect ending. Â Sure, not everything can be like that - I'm half-convinced Cena/Rock was/is meant to have the same kind of feel to it, and it hasn't succeeded half as well - and the history behind Taker/Michaels/HHH would be so difficult to replicate, but if there could more along the same lines, some of it could well catch on. Edited December 21, 2012 by HarmonicGenerator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted December 21, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) I think people also need to take into account that wrestling fans don't actually want to think to hard when watching wrestling. Its only wrestling after all. People just want to sit and watch a bunch of whack jobs talking about hitting each other and then hitting each other. All wrestling should be is positioning the wrestlers to get themselves over and presenting them in a light where they are highlighted. All you need is good promos and good matches. That's all wrestling ever needs to be. Â What has murdered pro wrestling is over complicated nonsense and a bunch of stars ruining their credibility by acting stupid, losing all the time and not being protected. Edited December 21, 2012 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted December 21, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 i think the first couple of seasons of Lost would be a great model for a brand new wrestling show. You're going to have to explain that one to me! Â Well, first of all the Jack-Locke relationship story arc was pure pro-wrestling. Their relationship, power struggle, reluctant alliance, betrayals their opposing character beliefs being the reasoning behind all that totally lends itself to wrestling. And joining together due to an outside common enemy (The Others) is total pro-wrestling too. Loads of the Others stuff was, somewhat akin to Nexus in principle. Â But with regard a new wrestling TV show (say non-WWE or perhaps actually NXT). You're presented with a brand new load of wrestlers/characters you need to establish. Have each episode having vignettes ('flashbacks' letting us get to the know them, stuff about their past, key areas to their characters, which can be used in many ways, TNA style reaction vids, to the sort of vignettes WWE already do when introducing a new character, just go more into it) dedicated to establishing a particular wrestler(s)/character(s) with the episode supported by matches. Eventually having the angles on the show and matches developing from those established characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted December 21, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 The big limitation to WWE being considered a self-contained universe that has its own rules is the fact that they have real life people paying to be in the audience, and the announcers constantly acknowledge the fact that they are airing on a real TV station. That's how you end up with any 'secret' backstage stuff airing on the show creating massive logic headaches, particularly when they air it on the big screen and you get a crowd reaction. It's hard for the shows to be comparable to quality television when they are trying to mix "live televised sports event" with "action drama series" and coming up against clumsy clashes between the two genres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 A review of WWF New York when it was still going: http://www.x-entertainment.com/messages/590.html  Sounds atrocious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted December 21, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 21, 2012 The big limitation to WWE being considered a self-contained universe that has its own rules is the fact that they have real life people paying to be in the audience, and the announcers constantly acknowledge the fact that they are airing on a real TV station. That's how you end up with any 'secret' backstage stuff airing on the show creating massive logic headaches, particularly when they air it on the big screen and you get a crowd reaction. It's hard for the shows to be comparable to quality television when they are trying to mix "live televised sports event" with "action drama series" and coming up against clumsy clashes between the two genres. Â That's the thing with 'secret' backstage skits. At least Bill Watts would say "And a fan just happened to be there with his camcorder". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members John Matrix Posted December 21, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 I dont watch any wrestling at all these days, but i am a sucker for the golden era. Â This is in WHSmiths along with the UFC encyclopedia in a 2 for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Au Posted December 21, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 That's the thing with 'secret' backstage skits. At least Bill Watts would say "And a fan just happened to be there with his camcorder". Yeah, it's been said a million times before but there should always be a reason for a camera to be there and there should never be a case where something has made it onto TV that a wrestler wouldn't/shouldn't know about. If the writers can't put together a compelling story taking that simple thing into consideration it really does make you despair a little bit. Â I'm not watching regularly but I'm of the understanding that The Shield are using a handicam for backstage promo's? That's bloody ace, it adds a huge amount to their characters and a little bit of an edge. Â More stuff like that; phone camera footage would be great to show backstage stuff that's supposedly "secret". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexy Dad Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) I'm a big fan of TNA's way of handling backstage segments, interviews are filmed one to one with a cameraman (Jason Hervey from the wonder years) and two guys talking is usually sneakily filmed through a window which is a decent touch. I think if WWE were to implement this style now it would stick out like a sore thumb in comparison of what they have done for years now though. When TNA introduced this more authentic style it was easier to take to as everything around 2010 was so trial and error anyway that the production was just another thing to add to the list. Edited December 21, 2012 by thesimonbegz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshC Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Tatanka's TV debut was against Tanaka. They'd never let something like that get through the net these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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