King Pitcos Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Summed up excellently and succinctly there Arch. I just don't get all the "but...but...but he's insulting our intelligence with his poor application of the the STF... and he's so cheesy...". It was all hokey shit when I started watching wrestling in 1990, and it's hokey shit now. Excellent. Especially the bold. Nostalgia generally makes people think old wrestling was a lot different to how it actually was, and oftentimes, to what they liked about it. I know a lad who claims now that SummerSlam '91 made him a wrestling fan because he respected the great technical ability of Bret Hart and Mr Perfect. He was six. Â Even in the attitude era, before the internet came into full swing, there was still a vast majority who did not have internet access and didn't know X-Pac was going to turn up on Raw for example. Now I can log onto Lords of Pain at work, and find out who's backstage at Raw etc. The mystique has well and truly gone, and that's why I don't think Wrestling will ever be like it was. The mystique is gone. Even aside from the Internet aspect, there's no WCW for X-Pac to come back from anymore. If someone turns up in WWE now, they're a rookie and can only make an impact by what they do, not who they are. It's not impossible, as the Nexus and Shield have shown, but it is so much harder now to "get over" than it was twenty-five years ago. And that's not even taking into account that the wrestlers now are far less seasoned when they get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted December 19, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 I am not a big Cena fan. Him handing over his Superstar of the Year award to Ric Flair is exactly the reason. Fucking tryhard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted December 19, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) I am not a big Cena fan. Him handing over his Superstar of the Year award to Ric Flair is exactly the reason. Fucking tryhard. For what Ric did for Gunner and his performer at the Eric Bischoff farewell, Flair was my pick as well. Edited December 19, 2012 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted December 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) For me, Bret is a good example of a guy that was a decent and believable person. Â Bret Hart was a moaning crybaby, so he was never for me. I never got into him as he was never a larger than life kind of guy when I was a child, and now as I'm older I just notice him moaning when I rewatch old stuff. Edited December 19, 2012 by PowerButchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I don't like the general idea of divvying up fans into 'cool' and 'uncool' based on who they're cheering or booing at shows. Let's face it, trying to pick the cool adults in a wrestling crowd these days is like being a judge at a tallest dwarf competition. Adult Cena fans at a live event are just as likely to look like that mutant who used to apply for Big Brother every year in full 'Chain Gang Soldier' fancy dress as CM Punk fans are to look like sweaty Forbidden Planet types. Â I think if people booing him really are jealous of Cena, it's pretty sad. No matter how successful somebody is, I find it hard to be jealous of them if they've worked to be where they're at. I resent the fuck out of talentless fucks like Harry Styles, George Osborne or some cunt from Geordie Shore or TOWIE having millions and being on TV every week, but you can't even look at Cena physically without being aware of the work that's gone into being where he is today. Whether I enjoy his act or not, I'd never begrudge him his success. Â For me, it boils down to this: I just like heels better. It's probably the biggest reason I like wrestling. Even though I love edgy TV characters like Vic Mackey and Chris Keller and Stringer Bell, I think you can get a kick out of cheering for the bad guys more so in wrestling than in an action film or crime show because you know they'll never do anything properly bad like rape somebody or kill somebody's dog. Even going back to the Attitude era, although I liked babyface Rock and Austin far more than I like Cena because they still acted a bit more edgy and heelish, I still didn't really like them all that much as babyfaces - I was generally cheering for Vince or Triple H when they were on top. I think plenty of wrestlers feel the same way, and it shows that they seem to have more fun working heel than they do as a face. Ultimately, I never really had a chance to get properly tired of Rock and Austin as babyfaces, and their great heel runs were almost as big a part of their time on top. With Cena, like Jeff Hardy, Sting, and pre-nWo Hogan, he's pretty much a career babyface, and that's ultimately why I don't regard his time on top with much fondness. Wrestling needs good babyfaces, but they're not the reason I watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_original Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 You might as well paint The Miz black and call him Daffy Duck. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Even though I love edgy TV characters like Vic Mackey and Chris Keller and Stringer Bell, I think you can get a kick out of cheering for the bad guys more so in wrestling than in an action film or crime show because you know they'll never do anything properly bad like rape somebody or kill somebody's dog.You were probably alluding to this anyway, but both of those things have happened in WWE more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Even though I love edgy TV characters like Vic Mackey and Chris Keller and Stringer Bell, I think you can get a kick out of cheering for the bad guys more so in wrestling than in an action film or crime show because you know they'll never do anything properly bad like rape somebody or kill somebody's dog. You were probably alluding to this anyway, but both of those things have happened in WWE more than once. Â Â I completely forgot about the Bossman's pantomime villain period and Al Snow's pepper steak. Well aye, maybe I used dodgy examples, but when they do do properly bad things in wrestling, they're always done in such a cartoony, comedic way as to make them not believable and somehow not that bad. Like when Trevor poured gravy on Little Mo's head, asking her "ye wan' some more graaaavy, Mo?'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted December 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2012 I dunno. There was the Brian Pillman XXX files stuff, the marriage and claimed date rape of Stephanie, ther bark like a dog thing, there's been loads of properly bad things in WWF/E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I dunno. There was the Brian Pillman XXX files stuff, the marriage and claimed date rape of Stephanie, ther bark like a dog thing, there's been loads of properly bad things in WWF/E. Â That one, I thought came under the comedy/cartoonish banner. Drugging somebody specifically to fuck them would obviously be rapey and a bit serious for wrestling, but doing it to marry them while doing their voice like Del Boy with the blow-up dolls took it a bit outside the realms of anything realistic enough to be taken seriously. Can't remember the Pillman stuff all that well, though I do remember Vince/Trish being a bit uncomfortable to watch at the time (though not enough to put me off my wank). Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted December 19, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) The Pillman stuff was as bad as the Trish thing I thought. Just really uncomfortable viewing. But at least the Pillman stuff was leading to her turning on Dustin Rhodes. So it wasn't like he was fucking her against her will. The Trish embarrassment led to Trish slapping Vince, which was clogged in with a million other things at WrestleMania X7. Nobody remembers Trish getting her comeback for that segment. The Trish thing will haunt them forever. It was brought up in the Linda election as well. People were super offended by it. Its the one thing people seem to use as an example when they are saying "what an embarrassing company". Edited December 19, 2012 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 19, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 The Sharmell / Angle thing was absolutely horrible. I was amazed that Angle agreed to it, especially after him crying about Sandman's 'crucifixion' in ECW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted December 19, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 Ivory said in her shoot interview that Angle started off a "a gentlemen" and eventually turned into "just another wrestler". If you had any morals before getting into it, wrestling will soon drag it out of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Up Chuck Posted December 19, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 I know this was a throwaway point in a post a few pages back in a discussion that we've now moved on from, but can I just say: judging from the reactions he gets for his babyface comebacks (see: the plancha at TLC), I reckon Daniel Bryan Hulking Up would blow the roof the place if the crowd were already fairly hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) The Sharmell / Angle thing was absolutely horrible. I was amazed that Angle agreed to it, especially after him crying about Sandman's 'crucifixion' in ECW. Â By that time in WWE, Angle understood pro wrestling a lot better than when he attended ECW. He got that heels sometimes do outrageous things to garner a reaction. It doesn't excuse the Sandman thing, but it provides a better context. My rule with wrestling storylines is to compare it to some of the other dramas etc I watch on TV. If I think of another show of TV that would/could pull off the storyline, then they're in the clear. Â I am a little murky on Angle/Sharmell though. Wasn't he just lusting after Sharmell, then Booker stopped him from advancing on her? Hardly drugging her or kidnapping her, although it carries creepy as hell undertones. I could see other shows being similarly creepy... in fact The OC did it, and they targeted young teens, while Smackdown in 05/06 was still more adult orientated for the most part than current WWE. Edited December 19, 2012 by Shane O' Mac Version 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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