Random thoughts thread v2 *NO NEWS ITEMS*

[King Pitcos]

The last few weeks, I've watched Smackdown highlights on WWE's Youtube rather than watching the whole show. It's much better this way.

 

Roman Reigns vs Kevin Owens was on this week, which seems a waste. Also Cesaro, while having little singles potential, is a great tag wrestler, especially in six-mans. His rallies where he runs around clattering the different opponents are tremendous fun. They should make the most of this in a Survivor Series match.

[Pinc]

Going back to the hometown discussion a page or so back - I met a lad in his mid-twenties from Charlotte, North Carolina at a music festival in 2009. He did know Flair, despite not being a wrestling fan, because him and his mates had done shots with him a couple of times. He said Flair was a fixture around the student bars of Charlotte, always up for getting a round in.

[DraxSpago]

Just been reading the Benoit thread in Gold during my dinner hour and I've remembered how much I didn't rate him

 

This is aside from the fact he's a murderer, to put it in terms of a lot of people in that thread would (and I appreciate the ones defending him were reacting to an almost unbelievable event) Chris Benoit The Wrestler was massively overrated

 

The triple German suplex always looked shite because he was too small to do it convincingly, his over the top "agonising walk to the corner and climbing up the turnbuckles" bit he did in every match was pathetic, he wasn't just a bad promo he was an embarrassing promo (telling Vince to "stand back" being the best example)

 

For a bit of balance I'm not saying he's anywhere near the worst wrestler of all time, he patently isn't, just that he's nowhere near all time great territory, even if you're just counting in ring ability.  His snap suplexes were superb, the headbutt was always good (could do without him selling it by seemingly bursting into tears everytime though, if it hurts that much don't do it you daft twat), crossface was a great finisher

 

My main problem with him (and Malenko actually) is they never seemed to work their size into how they wrestled, they just did what they thought would make a good match, regardless of how ridiculous the moves looked with two of the Time Bandits being the ones perfoming them

 

I will say though that since getting the network I haven't had a problem seeing him on Nitro for some reason, I thought I'd find it odd to watch him but it hasn't bothered me, which is handy because I did rate his matches with Jarrett (the ladder match), Rock (Fully Loaded 2000) and the Smackdown 6 match at No Mercy or Survivor Series 2002, whichever it was

 

Also, I do find it hilarious in hindsight that he left WCW as he thought he was never going to get pushed (despite being given the, admittedly then worthless, World title) only to end up 10 months later running round as one of Triple H's lackeys like a midget Road Dogg, though I suppose WM20 will have more than made up for that

[Sphinx]

I think his moves were believable for his size. He might have been small height wise, but he was very muscular for his height. For me, the Germans were completely believable. There's much worse culprits of wrestlers not playing to their size today.

 

He is one of the best I've ever seen. Complete conviction. In 2003, I was 12 and loving him because he had fight, overcame odds, had great matches, good music and the Crossface was a lush finish.

[DraxSpago]

I think his moves were believable for his size. He might have been small height wise, but he was very muscular for his height. For me, the Germans were completely believable. There's much worse culprits of wrestlers not playing to their size today.

 

He is one of the best I've ever seen. Complete conviction. In 2003, I was 12 and loving him because he had fight, overcame odds, had great matches, good music and the Crossface was a lush finish.

 

The opponent always had to get up ages before him though for it to work, whenever Brock has done multiple German suplexes in a row he just rag dolls them up and suplexes them again, Benoit always had to crouch while the opponent picked themselves up, always took me right out of the match

[Pinc]

The triple German suplex always looked shite because he was too small to do it convincingly, his over the top "agonising walk to the corner and climbing up the turnbuckles" bit he did in every match was pathetic, he wasn't just a bad promo he was an embarrassing promo (telling Vince to "stand back" being the best example)

 

Ha. I watched the Jericho/Benoit Stand Back segment the other night for giggles. Benoit is awful in it.

 

I loved him for it though. His complete inability to act like a human being in promos and skits is a little unsettling in hindsight, but came across as lovable once you'd been watching him for a while. In fact, paradoxically, it was the only thing that humanized an otherwise grimly serious character. He wouldn't have been such a sympathetic babyface in his later years without it.

 

I'd say the stuff about his moveset is unfair. If Dolph Ziggler (who I imagine is about the same size) did the rolling Germans it would probably look shite, but Benoit was intense and realistic enough that you believed he could grapple larger opponents back to their feet with it. It never took me out of his matches, and a lot of his more memorable rivalries were against opponents of about the same size anyway, Jericho and Angle being the obvious cases.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Pinc

[Supremo]

I liked Benoit, but I often wonder if I would've liked him as much if I hadn't discovered the Internet and Power Slam magazine around the same time that he came over from WCW. He was the king of the workrate~! back then, and so to be a real fan~! you had to worship him. If I watched him with my 2015 eyes I'd probably think he was fun to watch in the ring, but ultimately a bit boring and shit.

[Arch Stanton]

Benoit being strong and having a lower centre of gravity than most of his opponents made German Suplexes pretty logical to me. It was diving headbutts that I wasn't a fan of.

[DraxSpago]

I didn't have a problem with him doing German suplexes, just the continuous ones, the time he hit ten in a row on Austin it looked like they were doing some weird pissed up conga

 

In regards to what Supremo said about possibly viewing him as boring and shit, I'd say that was my opinion of him about a month into his WWE run when I realised he only had 2 types of match he could perform, babyface crying all the time match and heel with a snarl on his face match, even the matches I liked of his were all done by one of those formulas, still good matches but once you've seen Benoit in a PPV match once you pretty much don't need to see another one

[tiger_rick]

I liked Benoit, but I often wonder if I would've liked him as much if I hadn't discovered the Internet and Power Slam magazine around the same time that he came over from WCW. He was the king of the workrate~! back then, and so to be a real fan~! you had to worship him. If I watched him with my 2015 eyes I'd probably think he was fun to watch in the ring, but ultimately a bit boring and shit.

 

I definitely think there's a time and a place thing about it. If he was around now, I imagine he'd be in a similar boat to Cesaro. Benoit was always fun to watch and brought and intesity and realism to matches that was unmatched - probably because he was an actual psycho. On rosters that were full of more entertaining guys, he stood out because his work made you think "Now this guy is a wrestler".

 

As much as I think people who expect Cesaro to get some big push these days are being unrealistic, I do understand because I was probably in the same frame of mind with Benoit years ago. I think if anything, Benoit was in a better position because he was constantly working with people who were great workers or characters or talkers or all three. That made him seem fantastic because he worked well as the guy who was as good as they were but didn't need bells and whistles to show it. These days Cesaro is the same but he's working with other colourless bastards. Hence why he looks like a star everytime he's oposite John Cena.

[garynysmon]

During his WWF run, I just remember thinking of Benoit as a poor man's Kurt Angle really.

I wouldn't rate Benoit as a better wrestler than Angle, but neither did he have the charisma and ability to entertain.

To be fair, I was never a big fan of the Eddy Guerrero world title run either (me being the product of a "this is a big man's territorry brother" mentality I suppose), but at least I could acknowledge he was a better overall package.

[ElCece]

During his WWF run,

To be fair, I was never a big fan of the Eddy Guerrero world title run either (me being the product of a "this is a big man's territorry brother" mentality I suppose), but at least I could acknowledge he was a better overall package.

I think you have encapsulated my feelings on him there, I always much preferred Guerrero as I felt he was so much more rounded and entertaining and I mean that purely from and in ring aspect as well. I still liked Benoit but it was in a similar aspect as to how I enjoy someone like Tysoe Kidd or Cesaro now Edited November 4, 2015 by ElCece

[Sphinx]

I liked Benoit, but I often wonder if I would've liked him as much if I hadn't discovered the Internet and Power Slam magazine around the same time that he came over from WCW. He was the king of the workrate~! back then, and so to be a real fan~! you had to worship him. If I watched him with my 2015 eyes I'd probably think he was fun to watch in the ring, but ultimately a bit boring and shit.

As I say, as a kid I loved him and I barely knew anything 'smart' then so personally he worked for me. I loved 2002 - 2004 Smackdown in general.

[handspants]

When I used to wrestle with my mates and my brother, I always used to be Benoit.  I am not entirely sure what that says about me.  

I did once take the mattress off the top of a bunk bed, placed it between the bunk bed ladder and a table and german suplexed someone through it from the top of the bunk bed...  So yes, I probably am mental (it was pretty awesome though).

[tiger_rick]

I've been watching the July 25th 2002 Smackdown. Easily one of the best single TV shows WWE have ever presented.

It starts with a pretty cool TV style intro as Steph announces her its her first SD as GM. There is shit hot news off the bat as Steph announces Mysterio's debut, Lesnar's SD debut, Edge vs. Jericho in a cage and Rock & Hogan going for the tag titles.

The old Smackdown set is still awesome. Giant fist and all.

Lesnar F5'ing Henry is ace and continues to tease future feud with Angle.

Stacey Kiebler is hot as fuck. Batista is absolutely jacked.

Edge looks ace too. He's a bit too far up Steph's arse to be a cool babyface but its crazy how excited the crowd get when he commits to Smackdown as the brand split was brand new at this point. Crowd were into it. Edge goes inside the production truck. When did we last see that?

Michael Cole channels JR from KOTR 93 constantly talking about Indianapolis being "the heartland of America". Indy gives Hogan a fucking incredible ovation despite his horrendous theme music. I miss the "two big stars teaming to have a go at the tag titles" angle. Never really liked the Unamericans but they are proper heels here and The Rock sells brilliantly for them.

Love that in the first shot of Rey he has no mask and is seen putting it on. Not sure if it was a deliberate nod to the fact that he'd been maskless the last time we saw him but it worked. Love that original theme music too. Good match, Chavo being a good foil for Ret as always. Tazz calls a "six nineteen".

 

Main event cage match is ace. Jericho is at his best in this period. Carrying himself like a massive heel despite being a shrimp. The irony worked. Edge is way over and bleeds. I remember thinking this, coming off his Angle feud and team with Hogan, would be the making of him. Amazed it took nearly three years. Neck surgery fucked him over. The ending with the Unamericans running in and Cena coming down and Rey leaping off the cage felt amazing at the time. Although in hindsight i did wonder why Rey didn't just use the door.

 

It felt like a proper changing of the guard at the time. Such fresh talent main eventing Smackdown. New faces all over. Cena stands out as a bit of a div lookin back.

 

They ended the show with a cliffhanger where bischoff has taken a SD guy to Raw. It was played out like it was Angle but he turned up at the end. "If you're not in the limo, then who is?"

 

Duff-duff-duff. Eastenders theme. Great stuff.