The King Of Swing Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I'm done with Labour and switching to Plaid. Â The Labour Party is a complete shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted July 21, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 I for one would love to see the SNP re-branded as the British National Party.  Ha. It did occur to me that they'll be fucked for a name if they do expand. The National Party would work I suppose.     And yes, Labour need to get back to their roots if they even want to have some chance of getting elected. Moving back left is the best move - the success of the SNP clearly demonstrates this. They put out a clear, unwavering anti-austerity message with conviction and passion, and never once did they back down to the fear-mongering or the pot-shots chucked at them. In short, they showed they had principles and a backbone. Even if you don't agree with them, this made them opponents to be respected.    That's not really what voters who abandoned Labour at the last election are saying though.  http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/18/labour-party-voters-desertion-election?CMP=share_btn_tw   Right. Because those people are natural Tories. Blair might've won them over by adopting Tory policies, but it was never going to last. In fact, it's arguable that it was only successful because of how bad the Tories were in opposition.  Aside from that, if the people who abandoned them for not being right wing enough are essentially saying that they'll never come back, then what's the point in trying to appeal to them? 34 percent of the UK didn't even bother to vote. That's nearly the same amount that voted for the Tories. Those are the people that Labour should be trying to appeal to, not Tory swing voters who have said that they won't return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Bifkin Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015  I for one would love to see the SNP re-branded as the British National Party.  Ha. It did occur to me that they'll be fucked for a name if they do expand. The National Party would work I suppose.     And yes, Labour need to get back to their roots if they even want to have some chance of getting elected. Moving back left is the best move - the success of the SNP clearly demonstrates this. They put out a clear, unwavering anti-austerity message with conviction and passion, and never once did they back down to the fear-mongering or the pot-shots chucked at them. In short, they showed they had principles and a backbone. Even if you don't agree with them, this made them opponents to be respected.    That's not really what voters who abandoned Labour at the last election are saying though.  http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/18/labour-party-voters-desertion-election?CMP=share_btn_tw   Right. Because those people are natural Tories. Blair might've won them over by adopting Tory policies, but it was never going to last. In fact, it's arguable that it was only successful because of how bad the Tories were in opposition.  Aside from that, if the people who abandoned them for not being right wing enough are essentially saying that they'll never come back, then what's the point in trying to appeal to them? 34 percent of the UK didn't even bother to vote. That's nearly the same amount that voted for the Tories. Those are the people that Labour should be trying to appeal to, not Tory swing voters who have said that they won't return.   Some good points well made but I think the very fact that the only time labour got into power in the last 30 odd years was by adopting Thatcherite policies tells you all you need t know about the electorate.  As a labour supporter of about 25 years I'd like nothing more than a return to its socialist roots under Jeremy Corbyn but I fear that would turn us into a party for middle-class Guardian readers like myself. The working classes fear immigration and resent people on hand outs, I can't see his policies wooing them back. I don't think you can compare with the SNP and Scotland as you had nationalism influencing the vote there - and are they as radical as we perceive them to be down here and from the leadership debates? http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/36d6aa9a-efeb-11e4-ab73-00144feab7de.html#axzz3gWOPRXkd  To be honest I see only bad things for labour going forward and I think the end of the party as we know it is nigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 21, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 The reason why I don't 100% agree with the argument that nationalism was responsible for the SNP's fortunes is because they got a shit-ton of votes from a large number of people who voted "No" in the referendum. Even if people didn't believe them, the SNP did make themselves more appealing to the Unionist electorate by announcing that they would abide by the referendum result, thus freeing up the electorate's attention, if you like, to focus on the other ScotsNat policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbacon85 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Could we see a breakaway Labour Party? The Real Labour or similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 21, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2015 The Party Of Labour? Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 22, 2015 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2015 NEWSFLASH: BLAIR IS MASSIVE TWAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 22, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) NEWSFLASH: BLAIR IS MASSIVE TWAT. Â Quoted for undeniable, indisputable, unshakeable truth. Â Seriously, the piece of shit even tried to dissociate left-wing politics from the principle of helping people in society. Absolute fucking wretch of a human being. Edited July 22, 2015 by Carbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted July 22, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2015 Blair explains all: Â Â You wot, mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
textonly Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's ridiculous how often I have this fantasy now that all politicians are forced to take one of those "where are you on the political spectrum?" quizzes and are then sorted into parties like the Sorting Hat does in Harry Potter. All this in-party bickering and lack of clear ideology is driving me mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted July 22, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2015   I for one would love to see the SNP re-branded as the British National Party.  Ha. It did occur to me that they'll be fucked for a name if they do expand. The National Party would work I suppose.     And yes, Labour need to get back to their roots if they even want to have some chance of getting elected. Moving back left is the best move - the success of the SNP clearly demonstrates this. They put out a clear, unwavering anti-austerity message with conviction and passion, and never once did they back down to the fear-mongering or the pot-shots chucked at them. In short, they showed they had principles and a backbone. Even if you don't agree with them, this made them opponents to be respected.    That's not really what voters who abandoned Labour at the last election are saying though.  http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/18/labour-party-voters-desertion-election?CMP=share_btn_tw   Right. Because those people are natural Tories. Blair might've won them over by adopting Tory policies, but it was never going to last. In fact, it's arguable that it was only successful because of how bad the Tories were in opposition.  Aside from that, if the people who abandoned them for not being right wing enough are essentially saying that they'll never come back, then what's the point in trying to appeal to them? 34 percent of the UK didn't even bother to vote. That's nearly the same amount that voted for the Tories. Those are the people that Labour should be trying to appeal to, not Tory swing voters who have said that they won't return.   Some good points well made but I think the very fact that the only time labour got into power in the last 30 odd years was by adopting Thatcherite policies tells you all you need t know about the electorate.  As a labour supporter of about 25 years I'd like nothing more than a return to its socialist roots under Jeremy Corbyn but I fear that would turn us into a party for middle-class Guardian readers like myself. The working classes fear immigration and resent people on hand outs, I can't see his policies wooing them back. I don't think you can compare with the SNP and Scotland as you had nationalism influencing the vote there - and are they as radical as we perceive them to be down here and from the leadership debates? http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/36d6aa9a-efeb-11e4-ab73-00144feab7de.html#axzz3gWOPRXkd  To be honest I see only bad things for labour going forward and I think the end of the party as we know it is nigh.   Perfectly echoed my thoughts. However, I believe that the critics of Corbyn are being a little short sighted & thinking about the current public attitude as opposed to where it’ll be in a few years. Look at the reaction to the budget, working class families in low paid jobs who’d voted Tory genuinely shocked that they’d be worse off due to the cut of working tax credits. People who were (bizarrely) under the impression that it’d only be the ‘Benefit St’ & ‘Jeremy Kyle’ types taking the hit.  Things will get worse before they get better & the impeding £20b worth of ‘mystery cuts’ will be a catalyst. We’ve no idea how that’ll actually translate. Again, people read ‘welfare’ & ‘Westminster cuts’ & assume it’s MP’s expenses & people on the dole. When it’s their local police/fire station. Their community centre, library & swimming pool that’s closed things will start hitting home. When people see their elderly relatives not being able to get care but are reading how we continue to give Supermarkets £11b in subsidy a year I think (hope) opinions may start to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pier Six Brawler Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I honestly think some Labour voters are happier in opposition being able to criticise everything the Tories do, rather than being in power and having to make the inevitable compromises that come with running the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 22, 2015 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2015 Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbacon85 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I honestly think some Labour voters are happier in opposition being able to criticise everything the Tories do, rather than being in power and having to make the inevitable compromises that come with running the country. You honestly think that? What a fucking dumb assumption you have of humanity if that's the case. You would have to be a massive tool to want to bitch and moan about something rather than affect positive change in a constructive way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 That post is like something you would read on the digital spy forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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