CM Punk chat

[The Gaffer]

1 hour ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

I’m genuinely curious what he could teach that other veterans couldn’t?

Stuff that's in his head that we don't know. 

He became one of the most memorable stars of his generation within a system that seemed perfectly content to just have him be a spoke in the wheel. I mean I'd buy him a Pepsi at the bar before Miz comes in to do his seminar on how to sweet talk presenters and put over some house shows before Wayne's World comes on Cable 10 Aurora. 

[DavidB6937]

1 hour ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

What does he have to teach? This not a loaded question I’m genuinely curious what he could teach that other veterans couldn’t? I wouldn’t say that a Randy Orton, Miz, Cody, Kofi etc would have more to teach than Punk. Most of those names have had longer or more varied careers with less drama attached. 

Great a veteran is happy to lend their time to go down to developmental, but it feels a little like a politician holding a baby or royal handing out gifts to the poor for a photo op. And I wish I didn’t feel that way.

They're all different and they all have something to teach. Any of those guys you've mentioned would be great to go down to the PC and share their knowledge. I don't think that means Punk isn't worth having around though. I don't see it as an either/or scenario. And while there's not any drama currently, why not make the most of him?

He can wrestle. He can talk. He's got a long career with a variety of different experiences from indy level to championship status in multiple companies and he remains one of the most over acts in the industry. He has a large fanbase who still wanted him for years while he was gone. He's a rare breed whether we like everything he says and does or not.

[mim731]

There's probably an argument that Punk has made more than a few mistakes along the way and has plenty to offer in terms of what not to do as much as anything. That itself could be invaluable for many of the  wrestlers who haven't had the opportunity to make their own mistakes yet. 

[Hannibal Scorch]

59 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

 

Considering he was more or less the first wrestler to come from ROH and the independent system to make the breakthrough in WWE, and laid a path for many more who took that route to come, I'd say that counts for quite a lot.

What would you have said if he hadn't gone to NXT for these appearances?

Obviously nothing because there would be nothing to comment on. But the points made by you, and others are exactly what I was asking.

That said, Punk coming from ROH I’d argue is less relevant then a KO or Sami considering the scene he left in 2005 was completely different to the Indy’s in 2014 as well as the attitude from WWE’s end in that time as well.

And whilst obviously it would be hilarious and tragic if the same shit happens in WWE as it did in AEW, I’d rather it didn’t. I’d much rather see a redemption end to his career.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Hannibal Scorch

[DavidB6937]

2 minutes ago, mim731 said:

There's probably an argument that Punk has made more than a few mistakes along the way and has plenty to offer in terms of what not to do as much as anything. That itself could be invaluable for many of the  wrestlers who haven't had the opportunity to make their own mistakes yet. 

Which is perhaps why NXT alongside Shawn Michaels is actually a great place for him. For all his faults over the years, you can't argue against Shawn being a great person to teach the new talent.

If Albert can do it, anyone can. Although I assume he just taught a regular "how to convince everyone you were good in Japan" seminar.

[Loki]

Just because you’rea good wrestler, doesn’t mean you’d be a good teacher.  I think Danielson has said before that he doesn’t have the skillset to teach this stuff.  I really don’t see that Punk has the soft skills to teach.

[Supremo]

CM Punk ending up best mates with Shawn Michaels and Hunter Hearst Helmsley, though.

[Vamp]

Punk got fired for creating an unsafe working environment and walked into a presumably massive contract with the biggest company in the world. He's worked fans so many times over that there's people who are still willing to get him the benefit if the doubt that he's changed between leaving AEW and entering WWE. 

Don't get me wrong, he's probably infuriating to listen to for any length of time, but there's definitely stuff you can learn there about how to work the system. 

You wanna learn from Dolph about how to be so forgettable that you're still hired even though nobody can work out what the point of you is, you want to learn from The Miz for obvious reasons, you want to learn from Cody how to revitalise your career and you want to learn from Punk how to be an insufferable prick and still get hired. That's your 4 pillars right there. 

[Jonny Vegas]

It's funny how Punk's behaviour whilst trying to and subsequently returning to WWE is seen by a lot of people as him "maturing" or "building bridges".

For me it's just going back on thoughts, opinions and morals which he so publicly and loudly proclaimed for the sake of his own benefit.

I dont have a problem with it to be honest but I see wrestling as lot like politics. It's full of "holier than thou" people pointing at the wrongdoings of others and soaking up adulation for calling it out. Before they then do the exact same stuff.

I met Punk before and asked him to sign a wrestling magazine which had Shawn Michaels on the front. It must still be in my Mum's house somewhere.

He signed across his face, drew something or other on it too, then called him a "phony Christian" and "one of the biggest pieces of shit in the entire wrestling business".

I'm not saying hes wrong, he almost certainly isn't. It's just amusing for me to watch a man so full of opinion and principal bow down and kiss the arse of a company and people he's been so critical of for some money he probably doesn't need and chasing a dream Wrestlemania main event he watched comparable peers have instead of him for a decade because he fucked off in a tantrum.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Jonny Vegas

[air_raid]

7 hours ago, Jonny Vegas said:

For me it's just going back on thoughts, opinions and morals which he so publicly and loudly proclaimed for the sake of his own benefit.

It's just amusing for me to watch a man so full of opinion and principal bow down and kiss the arse of a company and people he's been so critical of for some money he probably doesn't need and chasing a dream Wrestlemania main event he watched comparable peers have instead of him for a decade because he fucked off in a tantrum.

What Hunter said is on the money. It’s been ten years. He’s changed, Hunters changed, the company’s changed. I don’t get why it’s so hard to believe that the conditions that forced his tantrum and departure (and admittedly that he’s spent 10 years complaining about) aren’t the same under which he’s come back, and especially that he couldn’t be convinced he was walking into a completely different setup to the one he left.

The words “morals” and “benefit” seldom align in many lines of work, and pro wrestling is one of the worst in that respect. Bret came back, Warrior came back, even Bruno came back. At this point, leave your disbelief at the door.

Edited December 14, 2023 by air_raid

[DavidB6937]

7 hours ago, Jonny Vegas said:

It's funny how Punk's behaviour whilst trying to and subsequently returning to WWE is seen by a lot of people as him "maturing" or "building bridges".

I think there's a hope that it is. None of us really know either way do we? This entire topic is based on assumptions by a bunch of wrestling fans who don't know the guy at all. It's all based on gossip or news or an on-screen persona or having met him for 5 minutes at a show. So none of our opinions are wrong.. or maybe all of them are. Who knows!

But in general I would hope that if someone's been through all the shit that Punk has - whether it's of his own doing or not - then perhaps he can find some peace somewhere. WWE has changed. A lot of the people there have changed. Maybe this is where he learns to do the same.

He wouldn't be the first person in the world to change over time and let bygones be bygones and all that jazz. And if he can find peace in a place that he once aspired to succeed in, then why not? Life is fucking short. And for all our over analysing and snarky comments and whatever else, if some good can come from all of this in the end then great.

[Devon Malcolm]

I think the Vince McMahon factor has been overlooked here as well. It's not just that he's no longer involved in the day-to-day running of the company, it's that so many of those that worked under him feel comfortable actually behaving and functioning like human beings. They're not acting the way McMahon wants them to act or doing what they think is going to keep them in their job.

It's not as simple as "Oh Punk once called HBK a piece of shit so why's he now working with him donkeys' years down the line". People there haven't just changed because of the passage of time but because of how they're allowed to behave and work now.

Punk probably hasn't changed as much as he thinks or as others have suggested. And it's unlikely he's changed a huge amount in the last few months before attempting to murder Tony Khan, throttling Jungle Boy and whatever else he's supposed to have done at Wembley. It's not impossible, of course. What allegedly happened in AEW might have been a wake-up call for him. Maybe AJ had a word with him? We don't know.

But it could just be that the environment at WWE now is far more palatable than it was a decade ago for his particular tastes. The probability is that it will all go tits up, going off his history, and then everyone who said it would get to give themselves an e-slap on the back.

It's wrestling, though. It's fucking stupid and we're watching it for the entertainment. If he does go Vesuvius again then enjoy it? 

[SuperBacon]

 

[Jonny Vegas]

5 hours ago, air_raid said:

The words “morals” and “benefit” seldom align in many lines of work, and pro wrestling is one of the worst in that respect. Bret came back, Warrior came back, even Bruno came back. At this point, leave your disbelief at the door.

Some of the major differences for me though are that Bret and Bruno had significant legitimate reasons to be fucked off majorly, Warrior much less so.

When you look back on the push and treatment Punk got in WWE his first time it waa huge and he was the first "indy" guy ever to be promoted and pushed to the moon like that but he acted like he was some hard done by spoiled little kid.

The "so suck a blood money covered Saudi dick" or similar and calling out their work with the Susan G Komen foundation are two of the examples I'd use of him being entirely different from anyone who's left the company and had an issue with them previously.

That sort of stuff is the taking the moral high ground, pointing down at them and saying he's above that and *that's* what his main issue is  which it isn't and never was.

Bret, Warrior, Sammartino's entire gimmick's and lives weren't the same as his "punk" persona either. It doesn't matter that he's in the right about Saudi and SGK, I'm not surprised he went back either. It's exactly what I expect from him.

It's his own behaviour, words, beliefs and morals that he's preached to others that in my opinion make him look an absolute wally now in there kissing Michael's bum cheeks on TV.

He's only the workings of time away from being inducted into the Vince McMahon kiss my ass club live on RAW for his job back.

[d-d-d-dAz]

8 minutes ago, Jonny Vegas said:

Some of the major differences for me though are that Bret and Bruno had significant legitimate reasons to be fucked off majorly, Warrior much less so.

When you look back on the push and treatment Punk got in WWE his first time it waa huge and he was the first "indy" guy ever to be promoted and pushed to the moon like that but he acted like he was some hard done by spoiled little kid.

The "so suck a blood money covered Saudi dick" or similar and calling out their work with the Susan G Komen foundation are two of the examples I'd use of him being entirely different from anyone who's left the company and had an issue with them previously.

That sort of stuff is the taking the moral high ground, pointing down at them and saying he's above that and *that's* what his main issue is  which it isn't and never was.

Bret, Warrior, Sammartino's entire gimmick's and lives weren't the same as his "punk" persona either. It doesn't matter that he's in the right about Saudi and SGK, I'm not surprised he went back either. It's exactly what I expect from him.

It's his own behaviour, words, beliefs and morals that he's preached to others that in my opinion make him look an absolute wally now in there kissing Michael's bum cheeks on TV.

He's only the workings of time away from being inducted into the Vince McMahon kiss my ass club live on RAW for his job back.

I mean, this conversation is a little tedious BUT Punk didn’t *just* have a tantrum about his booking… he did sue them about being forced to work with a staph infection, and was fired on his wedding day.

I think the answer is it’s not much to do with us and we don’t know anything.

Someone we don’t know left a job after a falling out with some people we don’t know, disappeared for a bit before returning to another company. That didn’t end well as the original person we don’t know fell out with other people we don’t know, and they all signed a form so they could make sure we never know what happened. That same person we don’t know returned to his original company and apparently now has better relations with the new people in charge, who we also don’t know.

I hope it works out for them, but I don’t know them and ultimately it doesn’t matter.

And Punk isn’t real. They all end up either selling butter on the TV, or dirt poor and wishing they were selling butter on TV.

Edited December 14, 2023 by d-d-d-dAz