Elimination Chamber 2023 - The End of the (Blood)Line

[gmoney]

8 minutes ago, Pinc said:

That finish was a horrendous bottlejob and anyone defending it is a bootlicker.

You can play with your figures and do the right result if you like mate. 

[The Gaffer]

Those are my tribal chief's boots you're talking about. 

[DavidB6937]

13 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Or enjoy different things. Which is cool too.

Also, you could argue chucking away the entire story they’ve probably had planned for six months to match fan involvement is the bigger bottlejob. You can’t bottle something you had no intention of doing in the first place.

The ending was entirely consistent with the story.

Some people had the same reaction when Drew didn't win at Clash.  Imagine what we would've missed out on if he did.

[d-d-d-dAz]

23 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Some people had the same reaction when Drew didn't win at Clash.  Imagine what we would've missed out on if he did.

The thing is, I think we’re supposed to feel disappointed. We’ve just spent so long with badly booked wrestling, not-that-evil heels and cold babyfaces, that we’ve got used to feeling numb so this new feeling of anger and disappointment is weird.

But if wrestling is functioning, we should get annoyed when Drew doesn’t win in the UK or furious when Sami doesn’t win in Montreal. 

Like @Supremosaid though, it should just intensify our desire to see the big evil nasty beaten eventually. Instead, sometimes, wrestling fans just go ‘no, I haven’t been worked, this is just bad and I am now not going to engage with the process at all, you’re all dumb and I’m right.’

It’s a shame, because if they just switched the title every time they do get an over babyface, nothing would ever get this hot.

I think they’ve done a great job with this. Their booking isn’t always great (the state of that Lesnar match after the Bray message in particular was very bad), but they’ve consistently nailed it with Roman and I’m excited to see where they go with it.

Edited February 19, 2023 by d-d-d-dAz

[Nick James]

53 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

He hasn’t. His piss poor efforts at Dx chops and Rock Mannerisms are embarrassing. He also looks tiny compared to the rest of the roster. He’s a great wrestler, he does cool spots, but he needs more polish.

I didn't think a bad take would top the Escobar one the other day, but this is up there. It's 2023, size in wrestling has never mattered less, and Tez isn't small.

Really hoping this is satire.

[Merzbow]

Was Beth always that bad? Her timing just seemed to be so off. Also, why can't I get an I'm Your Mami shirt over here?

[Hannibal Scorch]

3 minutes ago, Nick James said:

I didn't think a bad take would top the Escobar one the other day, but this is up there. It's 2023, size in wrestling has never mattered less, and Tez isn't small.

Really hoping this is satire.

People talk about Adam Cole’s Physique all the time, Tez is smaller than him. Besides that’s one point I made. The fact he throws worse crotch chips then Tyson is ridiculous for an actual wrestler. And I still think he’s a great wrestler but not the whole package. Bloody hell the over reactions are insane

[gmoney]

People aren't talking about Adam Cole's height when they say he's too small, it's his Corinthian Big Head, tiny body and skinny arms. Montez Ford is ripped to shreds and looks very well proportioned. I've never thought of him as seeming small. Cole is like something from a amusing cheat mode in a 90s video game. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by gmoney

[Pinc]

27 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

The thing is, I think we’re supposed to feel disappointed. We’ve just spent so long with badly booked wrestling, not-that-evil heels and cold babyfaces, that we’ve got used to feeling numb so this new feeling of anger and disappointment is weird.

But if wrestling is functioning, we should get annoyed when Drew doesn’t win in the UK or furious when Sami doesn’t win in Montreal. 

Like @Supremosaid though, it should just intensify our desire to see the big evil nasty beaten eventually. Instead, sometimes, wrestling fans just go ‘no, I haven’t been worked, this is just bad and I am now not going to engage with the process at all, you’re all dumb and I’m right.’

It’s a shame, because if they just switched the title every time they do get an over babyface, nothing would ever get this hot.

I agree with all of this in general. I was in Cardiff for Clash and obviously would've popped for a title change, but I didn't think it was the right call ultimately.

Sami is a different case though. Longer build, more meaningful, and their metrics are all trending up for the first time in about 20 years. Its much closer to Punk-in-Chicago than Drew-in-Cardiff. And that one big Punk win turned him into a genuine drawing card to the point that other wrestling companies were still milking it ten years on (not to mention UFC using it to draw a big house for Punk's second fight there). They could've added Sami-in-Montreal to that Piper-in-Portland list and they chose not to.

If Sami had won, this thread would not be full of people saying they should have stayed the course with Roman.

[SuperBacon]

15 minutes ago, gmoney said:

Corinthian Big Head

Excellent.

[d-d-d-dAz]

9 minutes ago, Pinc said:

I agree with all of this in general. I was in Cardiff for Clash and obviously would've popped for a title change, but I didn't think it was the right call ultimately.

Sami is a different case though. Longer build, more meaningful, and their metrics are all trending up for the first time in about 20 years. Its much closer to Punk-in-Chicago than Drew-in-Cardiff. And that one big Punk win turned him into a genuine drawing card to the point that other wrestling companies were still milking it ten years on (not to mention UFC using it to draw a big house for Punk's second fight there). They could've added Sami-in-Montreal to that Piper-in-Portland list and they chose not to.

If Sami had won, this thread would not be full of people saying they should have stayed the course with Roman.

Thing is, I’d have been happy if Sami won so I’m not all out against this point. BUT - if they still don’t have faith in Sami as a top guy, then having him be the guy to beat Roman is unquestionably the wrong decision. And that’s the hard square to circle, they could only pull the trigger last night if they were also going to run with Sami as a top, top guy for the medium to long term. Otherwise it’s a >900 day reign ended for a moment in time.

I think there is a real question about whether Sami is forever over, or if he’s only this over in the context of this storyline.

I don’t know if Cody is going to be the guy, it certainly seems like he is going to be, but again he only makes sense as a pick if they’re going to run with him as one of the main faces of the company moving forward.

’Victim of their own success’ is probably the best way to put it, but also victim of what they’ve built with Roman - when he loses it’s not just a loss in a wrestling match, it’s a coronation of the guy who’s winning. In that context, they have to stick to their plan as it has connotations for business, media etc..

I can’t wait to see how they get there as, for me, this is wrestling at its best and I’m still excited to see the process of crowning a new mega star.

I also still think it’s harsh to call it a bottle job as, in front of that crowd, the easy thing to do is probably just make the change and worry about it on Raw. The fact they’ve stayed the course is probably further proof that they really are going to put the business across Cody’s shoulders in the same way they have very few stars over the years.

Edited February 19, 2023 by d-d-d-dAz

[Pinc]

4 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

I think there is a real question about whether Sami is forever over, or if he’s only this over in the context of this storyline.

I don’t know if Cody is going to be the guy, it certainly seems like he is going to be, but again he only makes sense as a pick if they’re going to run with him as one of the main faces of the company moving forward.

Sami's best chance at being forever over was by winning here. Cody will now win a match everyone expects him to win that will be remembered as a comedown from the month before.

There was no way out of this situation with both Sami and Cody getting their optimal outcomes, but Cody's chance at that had already gone because of Sami catching fire at an inconvenient time. That was out of their control, but the optimal Sami outcome was still in play. It's gone now though. By their choice.

[gmoney]

7 minutes ago, Pinc said:

Sami's best chance at being forever over was by winning here. Cody will now win a match everyone expects him to win that will be remembered as a comedown from the month before.

No way. Sami is Mick Foley to Cody's Steve Austin. And they don't hotshot the belt as much as they did then, so he didn't get a turn. YET. There's no reason if Sami's a good a performer as we think he is he can't get people as invested again down the line. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

The one thing that this conversation seems to ignore is that Cody has been over, too. This idea of resentment or heat building hasn’t come to fruition, yet. I think people - in the main - are enjoying the multi-faceted story.

on another note;

Have they blurred out the winged belt?

[Pinc]

13 minutes ago, gmoney said:

No way. Sami is Mick Foley to Cody's Steve Austin. And they don't hotshot the belt as much as they did then, so he didn't get a turn. YET. There's no reason if Sami's a good a performer as we think he is he can't get people as invested again down the line. 

That’s how I’m left feeling really. Like that Raw in January ‘99 ended with Rock winning anyway after Austin’s run-in. If you’re alright with that then sound.

3 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

The one thing that this conversation seems to ignore is that Cody has been over, too. This idea of resentment or heat building hasn’t come to fruition, yet. I think people - in the main - are enjoying the multi-faceted story.

Och aye and they deserve credit for that. I’m not saying this means Cody will be booed or anything. Just that his win will definitely do less for both business and fan goodwill than a Sami win would have here.