Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted December 21, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, BomberPat said: why do so few people in the company seem to care that he's going around disrupting the show and assaulting people? If Tony had feared for his life the Devil would already be fired. Perhaps that is the best way out of this shit. Devil attacks Tony, then when it's revealed who it is he gets fired for cause. Then the Devil turns up as the winner of the Rumble points at the Wrestlemania sign, Big pop, everyone argues about it. Seth calls the Devil a fanny on Raw and we are on to the next feud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 36 minutes ago, BomberPat said: I'm not arguing for Tony Khan being more of an on-screen character, but there's been no suggestion that anyone at a management level cares that he's doing all this. Based on the origins of the Devil mask it's not case that management don't care, it's that they are complicit. All Out last year, they let a bunch of masked men takeover the Casino Ladder match. Gave over production after the main event for MJF's return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted December 21, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, BomberPat said: Nobody knows who he is, yet he has merchandise available on the website, he (or his equally anonymous masked henchmen) are apparently able to compete in AEW-sanctioned matches, and he's able to gain control of their production equipment to issue messages over the big screen - so how does nobody who works there know who he is? Is he signing merchandise deals and match contracts "sight unseen" like when Stephanie McMahon signed Mr. America to Smackdown? And why do so few people in the company seem to care that he's going around disrupting the show and assaulting people? I'm not arguing for Tony Khan being more of an on-screen character, but there's been no suggestion that anyone at a management level cares that he's doing all this. I mean you're absolutely 100% right but also surely this kind of nonsense and logic holes is something you just have to accept about wrestling not to go absolutely fucking insane right? The list of angles where realistically the people involved should have been immediately fire or arrested, tried and sent to prison or the entire company shut down is very long. And also yes I agree with you, this MJF Devil stuff is fucking rotten. My thoughts on this weeks episode: The Good - Continental Classic continues to be fantastic and the best story of the year. Probably the best ongoing thing in wrestling for 2023. Three top matches with the right winner and both winners and losers looking good. - Jay White's delightful post match sneak attack on Mox. Brilliant story here, Mox now has to face two of the sneakiest heels in wrestling at the same time while also having an injured knee. Great stacking the decks against the babyface stuff. - Excalibur, Taz and Schiavone were on top form all night, ripping the piss out of one another at any possible opportunity. - Speaking of commentary, Toni Storm was excellent again. What a wonderful and unique creation she is. - Toni Storm using old fashioned spectacles to see Riho. - the segment of MJF receiving the sportsman award. Showing anything taking place outside the wrestling bubble is good, adds a legitimacy to the shows and makes everything feel more real. - Kommander's full flip on the End of Heartache was insane! -Christian relaying a message through Schiavone because he can't be bothered to turn up. The Bad - everything about this Devil angle is rough. AEW is simultaneously putting on the best and worst of wrestling at the same time with this. Just a waste of everyone's time. I just want this to be over and quick. This dodgy, cheap ass sports entertainment stuff sticks out in AEW like a sore thumb. - Saraya is so useless in the ring. She belongs at your local leisure centre or working men's club show not on a big stage. Everything she does looks weak as piss. Watching her repeatedly do slow forward rolls from Riho's head scissors was painful to watch. If they're building to a Saraya vs Ruby Soho singles match that'll be the Worst Match Of The Year sewn up for sure. - Kommander vs Roderick Strong was a good match when viewed alone but it definitely felt like one singles match too many on the card. A fun multi-man in this spot would have been a good move and a way to showcase more talents. Equally, this match went about ten minutes and they could have easily told the same story with five. - another fucking Wardlow video package. Feels like he's been threatening to beat up MJF for three months straight now. He's right there Wardlow, just go get him! Edited December 21, 2023 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 21, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2023 Toni Storm's Opera Glasses would be a great forum username. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, BomberPat said: there's a lot of stuff in wrestling that I'm a bit of a stick in the mud about, and AEW are hitting all of them with the Devil storyline. Nobody knows who he is, yet he has merchandise available on the website, he (or his equally anonymous masked henchmen) are apparently able to compete in AEW-sanctioned matches, and he's able to gain control of their production equipment to issue messages over the big screen - so how does nobody who works there know who he is? Is he signing merchandise deals and match contracts "sight unseen" like when Stephanie McMahon signed Mr. America to Smackdown? It's a shame, because I do think there's a good idea in the devil storyline. I can't remember who pointed it out - but the initial appearances and even the reveal of Aces and Eights in TNA was all done really well - it fell apart after that of course, but it's been a while since this kind of thing has been done (I'm not counting Retribution as there was no build up to a reveal with them) and there was no reason why it couldn't have been done well here. For a company that built an entire gimmick around 'sports entertainment' to gain heat, they sure do a lot of it - particularly 'spooky' stuff, which I don't think ever works in wrestling. I hated it when The Undertaker did it, I hate it when the Wyatts did it and I don't like it when it's done with House of Black, Abadon or 'the devil'. They seem to conflate 'mysterious' with 'supernatural', which is a big mistake in my view. Edited December 21, 2023 by RedRooster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 Booooooo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted December 21, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2023 3 hours ago, LaGoosh said: I mean you're absolutely 100% right but also surely this kind of nonsense and logic holes is something you just have to accept about wrestling not to go absolutely fucking insane right? The list of angles where realistically the people involved should have been immediately fire or arrested, tried and sent to prison or the entire company shut down is very long. It's a fair point, but it comes down to just doing something to make it work, whether that's a line of dialogue in a promo, or on commentary, or anything. I was just listening to the latest Must See Matches podcast, on the Ric Flair/Terry Funk I Quit match, and they talk about how in the build to that, Terry Funk is suspended and fined for assaulting Ric Flair, but Flair so desperately wanted the match with him that he paid the fine for him and petitioned the NWA to lift the suspension - I love that sort of thing, because it establishes that there are consequences for breaking the rules, but also gives a justification for why the match would still be allowed to happen. There are things that you just have to stretch your suspension of disbelief for, and that's fine when it works, because you can justify it as "the babyface wants to settle this in the ring, rather than going through the police" or whatever. That sort of thing doesn't bother me so much as "why does this guy who doesn't work here have the ability to book matches, and control the production?", or "why aren't security stopping these masked thugs from beating up wrestlers?", because as much as those are very wrestling angles to book, they're things that can be explained away very easily with minimal effort - or not even necessarily explained; the commentators can ask out loud, "who is this guy, how is he hacking into our production truck?", to at least acknowledge that this isn't a scripted, scheduled part of the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 5 hours ago, BomberPat said: Nobody knows who he is, yet he has merchandise available on the website, he (or his equally anonymous masked henchmen) are apparently able to compete in AEW-sanctioned matches, and he's able to gain control of their production equipment to issue messages over the big screen - so how does nobody who works there know who he is? Is he signing merchandise deals and match contracts "sight unseen" like when Stephanie McMahon signed Mr. America to Smackdown? And why do so few people in the company seem to care that he's going around disrupting the show and assaulting people? I'm not arguing for Tony Khan being more of an on-screen character, but there's been no suggestion that anyone at a management level cares that he's doing all this. The Acclaimed seem more annoyed at MJF about it than at the people who actually beat them up and took them out of action for weeks. Jay White and Bullet Club Gold don't seem to care or remember that they were assaulted first. Couldn’t be much of this be applied to The Shield or Nexus, both of which, contrary to the outcome, has been heralded for years as great work by WWE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 Sorry to circle back to the point, but even before The Devil got merch (which is insane), you knew it was going nowhere when his goons came out in branded Devil jackets. Absurd. Someone made the point in the other thread, I think, that it feels like one of those annoying Career Mode computer game angles now where you just want it to fuck off so you can just feud the big names against each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted December 21, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2023 There is no one now that could be revealed that would make anyone in their right mind care now. It would also hurt someone like Ospreay coming in. Badly booked all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted December 21, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2023 32 minutes ago, BomberPat said: the commentators can ask out loud, "who is this guy, how is he hacking into our production truck?", to at least acknowledge that this isn't a scripted, scheduled part of the show. AEW have actually done exactly that with The Devil stuff. Which is good. But yeah still doesn't explain why The Devil now has merchandise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted December 21, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2023 I don’t know how much was pre-planned, or what even sparked the, “we want chairs!” chant to begin with, but Mark Briscoe coming up with a way to use the chair, get the big pop, but without it derailing the match or causing a DQ is why he’s fucking brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted December 21, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 21, 2023 The man is a natural babyface. When he put on a fans hat after the dive I grinned from ear to ear. He knows exactly what to do and what little things to add that will increase a pop or get the fans even more behind him. A true absolute pro in a wrestling landscape with very few of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said: There is no one now that could be revealed that would make anyone in their right mind care now. It would also hurt someone like Ospreay coming in. Badly booked all around. MJF. This is going to go badly for anyone. At least with MJF he's a natural heel. We get the turn out of it and he can try to make the negative reaction work for him. When he's being a smarmy git trying to explain it all, hit Sting's music and start the build to MJF v. Sting at Revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 22 minutes ago, Matthew said: Couldn’t be much of this be applied to The Shield or Nexus, both of which, contrary to the outcome, has been heralded for years as great work by WWE? The Nexus was well handled up until Summerslam - the difference, I suppose, is that they were all visible, there were no ‘spooky’ shenanigans and Wade Barrett had already won a title shot, so he had a reason to exist in this world. Their motivation as a group was also clear. The Shield, from memory, were initially associated with Punk; but their reason for being was never made explicitly clear. I do think that merits criticism, and they likely benefitted from viewers being happy to see new wrestlers get a push. Unlike Nexus, The Shield got better as time went on; and hey, perhaps this angle will too. Out of interest, do you think it’s going well/is getting unfair criticism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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