The Tony Khan Is A Twat Thread

[Keith Houchen]

29 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Flair is historical, but here we are are, holding him accountable

Are we though? (We as in wrestling fans) from what I’ve seen it’s not a bother that a sex offender is on a show, but who the sex offender is and what he, or can’t in his case, offer the product. People seem upset because it’s an old has been who should’ve fucked off a decade or so ago, not because he’s a sex case. 

 

32 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Theory Speaking Out will tell you the Theory allegations.

Fucking hell. Maybe he just showed Vince some DMs. And Vince advised him how to do it without getting caught. No wonder he was his golden boy. 
 

 

34 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

But if you are going to refuse to watch any company who has hired someone problematic, your only option is to watch no wrestling.

That’s what I’ll stick to then, thanks. 
 

I wonder what people’s line in the sand would be for them personally. What will be the thing that makes the company morally impossible to support. Because for most fans, there isn’t one and I don’t think most keffers have one either. 

[Loki]

35 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

your only option is to watch no wrestling.

That's the thing though isn't it!  The whole industry is pretty shitty, I don't think there's a way to avoid watching people who either have done, or are accused of doing, distasteful things.  You either accept it, or don't watch at all. 

 

[TheScarlettChad]

Wrestling was never not scummy. You either accept that and watch it for what it is, lowest form of trash tv or you don't, there's good people in the biz, but there's plenty of scum, Sniff included. Bans Hulk but brings flair out and employs a lad who took his name from GG Allin, a rapist and general scumbag. Its all dirty. 

[westlondonmist]

2 minutes ago, TheScarlettChad said:

Wrestling was never not scummy. You either accept that and watch it for what it is, lowest form of trash tv or you don't, there's good people in the biz, but there's plenty of scum, Sniff included. Bans Hulk but brings flair out and employs a lad who took his name from GG Allin, a rapist and general scumbag. Its all dirty. 

Most industries have always been scummy, they have at least somewhat tried to clean up or at least try and give an image. Wrestling seems to never be held accountable and doesn't seem to want to clean up, it probably only has done because the wrestlers themselves are generally not so bad rather than anybody trying to clean up.

 

The all Wrestling is scummy, it's accept it or don't watch is an excuse. An excuse the wrestling industry doesn't give a fuck and an excuse fans use to cover their conscience. Fans that tune into Flair, McMahon or Michaels, would they accept it if it was a musician, an actor, director or producer. Probably not.

 

I went to All In, I'm not sure I'll bother next year now. I'm going to be honest seeing the Bevis family paraded as heroes in August already had me not sure if I would go but hoped I might get more enthusiastic. It's obvious that he doesn't give a fuck. 

 

[Keith Houchen]

17 minutes ago, Loki said:

That's the thing though isn't it!  The whole industry is pretty shitty, I don't think there's a way to avoid watching people who either have done, or are accused of doing, distasteful things.  You either accept it, or don't watch at all. 

 

There’s a difference in not knowing about the off screen lives of the people on screen, and knowing. I’d wager the majority of viewers don’t know so that’s fair enough. 
 

The thing that gets me is those who do know and get selective because of the team they support. I love football but the top of it is ran by wankers and has a load of wankers watching wankers play it. I saw a vid of a guy protesting outside Newcastles ground about their owners and fans were giving him grief. Yet had the owners bought Sunderland instead, they’d have joined in the condemnation. People rightly bring up WWEs / Vinces crimes and turning blind eyes, but once their favourite company starts doing the same, they either stop pretending to care or indulge in whataboutery like football fans do. 

[Hannibal Scorch]

19 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

There’s a difference in not knowing about the off screen lives of the people on screen, and knowing. I’d wager the majority of viewers don’t know so that’s fair enough. 
 

The thing that gets me is those who do know and get selective because of the team they support. I love football but the top of it is ran by wankers and has a load of wankers watching wankers play it. I saw a vid of a guy protesting outside Newcastles ground about their owners and fans were giving him grief. Yet had the owners bought Sunderland instead, they’d have joined in the condemnation. People rightly bring up WWEs / Vinces crimes and turning blind eyes, but once their favourite company starts doing the same, they either stop pretending to care or indulge in whataboutery like football fans do. 

Which AEW fans have defended it? Or used whataboutery? X is full of people either going OH MY GOD ITS FLAIR, or calling TK out for double standards. And no one has here, either. The only defence, and I use that lightly, is they bought in Stings greatest ever foe because he’s retiring. It’s not going to be regular, he’s only going to be involved with Sting. And it’s something he knew Sting would appreciate. And that’s as much of a defence of the situation as I’m willing to make, because I’d rather he wasn’t bought in either.

[garynysmon]

51 minutes ago, TheScarlettChad said:

Wrestling was never not scummy. You either accept that and watch it for what it is, lowest form of trash tv or you don't, there's good people in the biz, but there's plenty of scum, Sniff included. Bans Hulk but brings flair out and employs a lad who took his name from GG Allin, a rapist and general scumbag. Its all dirty. 

I know what you're saying but I still don't think it's helpful to throw your hands in the air and say, "Eh, what will you do?"

Its the equivalent of people excusing their political ignorance by claiming that all politicians are the same anyway (when they're fucking quite clearly not).

Wrestling is fortunate/unfortunate (depending on your perpective) that is manages to fly under the radar for the most part. If this were a proper sport the scrutiny would be magnified tenfold by both the press/media and authorities.

Because it doesn't fall neatly into any category of sport or entertainment and the employment status of wrestlers is so fucked up beyond belief, it does get away with a hell of a lot more. There's no such thing as a governing body for instance.

Show me any other endeavour so clearly based on athletics that can say that much? 1PW scamming people wouldn't happen time after time in most sports as the promoter would have been banned years ago.

Keith's football analogy is correct. As wrestling is an escape for most of us, often something a bit underground that you don't always reveal to normal people you work and socialise with, there is a tendency to regress a bit. 

The online discourse on social media is childish and the arguments are tedious and (increasingly for clicks) revolving around which of the big two you've pinned your ribbon to and shapeshifting your views to justify that narrative. 

Darby Allin is still featured because (fuck knows why) he's a popular act and is liked by the audience. If he was a nobody wrestling on Dark every week he'd have been canned with a statement claiming that AEW is a safe space for everyone.

Matt Riddle got canned months (if not years) after revelations came out and the company got tired of pushing him as he was a pain in the arse. Don Callis was allowed to quietly leave Impact months (if not years) after allegations were made about him.

Tony Khan "banned" Hulk Hogan as a publicity stunt and because he never liked him anyway and the fanbase he was targeting was likely to share similar sentiments. Not defending Hogan's comments for one second, but who'd have thought that a big Florida redneck that grew up in the 1960's was less than progressive in his views?

Such shallow statements just fall so embarrassingly flat when the consistency just isn't there.

Given that promoters will seemingly book anyone (as long as they're not completely beyond the pale) that will get a pop/buzz/rating, the lack of any supreme authority means that the only option that remains is for the fans to vote with their feet. And everyone has their own standards.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by garynysmon

[Keith Houchen]

31 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Which AEW fans have defended it?

I didn’t say they defended it? And by it, do you mean Flair?

[Vamp]

Is it true that there aren't any promotions out there that aren't at least trying to do the right thing? 

That's the thing to me. Neither AEW or WWE are trying. But I'm sure there must be promotions out there, no matter how small, who are at least trying. 

[Hannibal Scorch]

14 minutes ago, Vamp said:

Is it true that there aren't any promotions out there that aren't at least trying to do the right thing? 

That's the thing to me. Neither AEW or WWE are trying. But I'm sure there must be promotions out there, no matter how small, who are at least trying. 

The thing is at times they both have acted appropriately at times. WWE getting rid of Dream, AEW firing BJ Whitmer, so both CAN do the right thing, they just don’t everytime.

[Merzbow]

I'm not sure I could ever call it doing the right thing when it's so obviously calculated, a persons "worth" vs the potential optics of the offense.

[organizedkaos]

Regarding "this could only happen in wrestling" - it's pretty prevalent in music too.  Electronic music had a similar timed speaking out as wrestling (likely due to covid giving space for these sort of stories to come through).  A couple of accusations stuck - Eric Morrillo had too many stories to be ignored yet you still had tasteless support from people with big social media followins (I di realise the whiplash of stories coming out and then his suicide must have been difficult for friends who allegedly didn't know about anything but still... indicative of the societal view on all this)
However you've still got loads of people seeming getting plenty bookings despite overwhelming stories about their misdeads (Derick May being one big example)

Heck there's quite a lot of similar analogies with music as a whole; Shawn Michaels is pretty similar to your deified "definitely did wrong stuff but nothing stuck and people still tell stories as if it's all a bit of fun" musicians like Bowie and Jagger.  Yes you've got a few examples of people having to step away due to very clear allegations but plenty of people in all tiers of the buisness carrying on despite mutliple allegations (and then you've got the unquestioning defence by fans)

It's really not just a wrestling thing. It's a terrible people thing, terrible people in industries where they're  emboldened by buisnesses and fans that allow them to parlay their fame and/or power into unchecked abuse

Edited October 27, 2023 by organizedkaos

[LEGIT]

I think there's more a global thing where someone does something bad and people who already didn't like them hold them accountable. However when someone they do like does a similar bad thing they don't hold them accountable.

Now everyone is allowed their opinion on people to people basis of course, but it creates a hypocrisy that will be called out. 

I'm probably guilty of all of this too, I may add. I'll still watch Hogan and Flair matches, and to be honest probably wouldn't care either way if a company hired them. However if a company were to hire Joey Ryan I'd probably complain about it, to a point anyway.

As someone said if you want to take the moral high ground you're better boycotting wrestling altogether, and I'd say that's correct. You can hate Vince for his wrongdoings, but there's also Hogan, Flair, Shawn, Warrior, Austin etc etc all been accused of serious wrongdoings. To a lesser scale you'd easily be able to find clips of say Hunter or even Rock making homophobic or racist jokes whilst in character. Every big wrestling company has it's dirt and it's wrestlers with their dirt. I can see past it and still enjoy the show, but that's just me. Others are better not watching any of it.

[LEGIT]

Sorry to double post, just wanted to add/ elaborate. For a lot of people it's, for example, Hogan = bad/evil, Austin= legend. Cornette = bad/evil, Heyman = legend etc etc. And of course that's life, we've all got opinions. But some people seemed tarred as the pantomime villain and others seem to get off with it. I'd sooner anyone say, know what, I don't give a shit about any of the allegations and can still enjoy them as performers. Also I'd sooner hear the likes of Keith's view who would rather not watch any of it and hold them all accountable. But this in betweeny picky choosey shite just reeks of hypocrisy and people will always call others out on it. 

[Keith Houchen]

1 hour ago, LEGIT said:

Sorry to double post, just wanted to add/ elaborate. For a lot of people it's, for example, Hogan = bad/evil, Austin= legend. Cornette = bad/evil, Heyman = legend etc etc. And of course that's life, we've all got opinions. But some people seemed tarred as the pantomime villain and others seem to get off with it. I'd sooner anyone say, know what, I don't give a shit about any of the allegations and can still enjoy them as performers. Also I'd sooner hear the likes of Keith's view who would rather not watch any of it and hold them all accountable. But this in betweeny picky choosey shite just reeks of hypocrisy and people will always call others out on it. 

Just to add to this, it’s important to make a distinction between hypocrisy and inconsistency. You may boycott something for moral reasons but not be aware of the same thing happening with another company that you haven’t boycotted. That isn’t being a hypocrite. 
 

I’ll be honest. It’s shite being me, it really is. I wish I could just watch something and enjoy it. But no, as soon as someone is a wrongun my brain stops me enjoying it, it’s the same with actors and directors. I’m denying myself things I’d enjoy and it really is a joyless soulless existence as I wait to be measured up for a wooden suit. 
 

I can totally get why people watch and I’d never begrudge that. As I say I’m wondering where people’s line is, or if they have one. Because you can’t pontificate about one and not the other. Remember, most people stopped watching WWE because they thought it was shit, not for any other reason. You can’t wag the finger at them now if you weren’t bothered then. 
 

And above all, Tony Khan Is A Twat.