Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 17, 2021 Moderators Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 hour ago, tiger_rick said: No way it took 3 pages for Bob Holly's name to come up. What on earth happened to the UKFF? The UKFF now likes Bob Holly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 On 7/17/2021 at 7:57 AM, Keith Houchen said: Between that and her awful music, I could never root for her. Her music's great! Wasn't there a suggestion that things were made to be more brutal and real just for the documentary? Never made much sense. Always makes me wonder how much it happens in all sorts of physical activities. Wrestling obviously has the anxiety over being fake but I do wonder how much the "weed out the weak" and "tough love" excused abuses also happen in other pursuits like ballet, gymnastics and ballroom. I suspect it's not wrestling or Japan specifically and it's a much larger worldwide issue over multiple disciplines which is a really depressing thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Ballet and gymnastics certainly have their dark abusive side. China in particular were brutal to their gymnasts. Puberty blockers and all sorts going on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 32 minutes ago, Vamp said: Her music's great! Wasn't there a suggestion that things were made to be more brutal and real just for the documentary? Never made much sense. Always makes me wonder how much it happens in all sorts of physical activities. Wrestling obviously has the anxiety over being fake but I do wonder how much the "weed out the weak" and "tough love" excused abuses also happen in other pursuits like ballet, gymnastics and ballroom. I suspect it's not wrestling or Japan specifically and it's a much larger worldwide issue over multiple disciplines which is a really depressing thought. I've read that there were claims that Satomura was encouraged to stiff people for the doc. Could be true, could be a bollocks excuse. Considering the Joshi scene has always had a reputation for it's "tough" training (and GAEA's Chigusa Nagayo being from the old school generation) I'm inclined to believe that's it is the latter. One theory over the Yoshiko/Act incident is that there was a rift between those that preferred the old school training and those that wanted to get away from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 19, 2021 Moderators Share Posted July 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Keith Houchen said: Ballet and gymnastics certainly have their dark abusive side. China in particular were brutal to their gymnasts. Puberty blockers and all sorts going on there. Thing is, Ballet is art. Wrestling isn't. I'd suffer to be an artist, but I'd never take a bump when I was MCing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Surf Digby Posted July 20, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2021 11 hours ago, PowerButchi said: Thing is, Ballet is art. Wrestling isn't. I'd say they're both performance arts. Both are telling stories through their bodies for the entertainment of an audience. Ballet isn't like dancing for fun where you do what you want for your own enjoyment, its movements are specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted July 20, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2021 12 hours ago, PowerButchi said: Thing is, Ballet is art. Wrestling isn't. I'd suffer to be an artist, but I'd never take a bump when I was MCing. Isn't this what Daran Aranofsky was aiming for with his companion pieces of The Wrestler & Black Swan? Opposite ends of the cultural spectrum, but both an art form in their own way? Participants willing to put everything on the line to try and make it or have that one last big moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 12 hours ago, PowerButchi said: Thing is, Ballet is art. Wrestling isn't. I'd suffer to be an artist, but I'd never take a bump when I was MCing. You can't compare MCing to wrestling. Who's 'suffering for their art' MCing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 20, 2021 Moderators Share Posted July 20, 2021 Backyard MCing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted July 20, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, jazzygeofferz said: Isn't this what Daran Aranofsky was aiming for with his companion pieces of The Wrestler & Black Swan? Opposite ends of the cultural spectrum, but both an art form in their own way? Participants willing to put everything on the line to try and make it or have that one last big moment? Did ballet start as a way to grift drunks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 The only people who consider wrestling to be art are wrestling fans. And they think Red Dwarf is art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 That reminds me of someone (actually can't remember if it was here or somewhere else) saying that wrestling was the most versatile mode of storytelling there is and me just thinking "but it isn't, is it?" Like, I think you could tell a hell of a lot of different stories with wrestling (sure, there's the general addage that it should always come down to two people hating each other and fighting it out but it obviously doesn't have to) but I don't really believe it's more versatile than music, dance (although I could be persuaded that wrestling is a form of dance), cinema, radio, video games, poetry or comics. I never said anything because I thought, well I haven't watched a lot of weird wrestling and maybe my imagination is just limited, but it still baffles me a bit. On the art thing, I kinda wonder how many wrestlers perceive themselves as creating art. I know art doesn't have to be intentional. I also think its probably detrimental to wrestlers for them to be perceived as "artists." I think the general perception of being an artist is probably a bit too close to being an "independent contractor." Even if the art world is full of grifters, politics and bollocks gaining cultural value because of the opinions of a select few. Okay, maybe wrestling is art.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 What's interesting is that case in the UK where James 'Jay Knox' Riley assaulted his trainee during a match and got a prison sentence for it, rightfully. I suspect that precedence will certainly come into play if any other incidents occur like that again. I believe its a simple case of bullies believing they can get away w taking liberties. It's not okay and needs stamping out (no pun intended). That said you hear less of it nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted July 20, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2021 Bit late to this one but - to answer the question about trainees in Joshi having to be a sub for their trainer to get anywhere in the business, I don’t know if there’s any truth to that, but from my trips over to Nip in 11-13 it did surprise me to hear “She’s only in that spot because she’s so-and-so’s girlfriend” more than once, with the so-and-so invariably being high up the card, 10-20 years older, and either a trainer/booker/owner. Obviously there isn’t an inherent link between such nepotism and a degree of submission or abuse, but you might draw that conclusion. On 7/17/2021 at 8:51 PM, Tommy! said:  Aren't there a few tales of Jericho having a big ego and a thin skin? Or is it just a conspiracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 On 7/17/2021 at 8:25 AM, Egg Shen said: Yeh that was Mike Levy. There was a similar incident at the King of the Deathmatches where Ian battered some fella named Peter B. Beautiful. I cant recall the backstory, but i think was something to do with Beautiful refusing to sell and at the same time taking issue homosexual gimmick. Its a tough watch.  Oh fuck! I wish I hadn't watched that. Just horrible. Absolutely un-necessary and inexcusable. Ian Rotten's a massive piece of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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