The NXT Discussion Thread

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

3 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

now it’s been done in NXT it’s amazing

Everything is better once Shawn has cast his eye over it. 

[SuperBacon]

44 minutes ago, The Dart said:

Oba Femi too.

Check his passport.

One for you mid 00s Prem fans there.

[DavidB6937]

1 hour ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

You’ve put me down a road I wasn’t walking on. My original point wasn’t they copied the spot (call backs and greatest hits are common. I mean CM Punks AEW run was basically Bret Hart’s greatest matches). My point was back when Ospreay/Ricochet did it, it was widely rubbished as gymnast bollocks and it was the death of wrestling, but now it’s been done in NXT it’s amazing.
 

I’d like to say that rhetoric is because wrestling tastes have changed, but we know how those same people talk about AEW that it’s not. 

You assume it's the same people watching and commenting.

I wonder how much crossover there is between NXT 2024 women's fans and people who were watching Ricochet and Ospreay back then? It's not something anyone can prove or whatever.

It's all just assumptions isn't it. You always assume everything is anti AEW. I assume there's just a bunch of people who enjoyed seeing two young and promising women delivering a high quality athletic performance early in their careers and recognising the potential.

Ospreay is SO much better now than he was then anyway. Far more well rounded. Ricochet needs to prove he's more than that. And the women have a long way to go to become genuine top talents that aren't just GIF worthy.

[Mr_Danger]

I don’t like overly choreographed wrestling where you know the wrestlers have to be working together to make it work, kills the suspension of disbelief for me. I appreciate that a lot of fans didn’t grow up with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels being the most athletic and technical wrestlers they’d ever seen though and it’s a different bar these days. Many many fans enjoy wrestling for the pure spectacle and couldn’t give a shit about stories and psychology. They should be catered to. 
 

As always, weirdos on Twitter are not the barometer to judge entire fanbase/doms/viewers/enjoyers of tv shows on.

[DavidB6937]

17 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

I don’t like overly choreographed wrestling where you know the wrestlers have to be working together to make it work, kills the suspension of disbelief for me. I appreciate that a lot of fans didn’t grow up with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels being the most athletic and technical wrestlers they’d ever seen though and it’s a different bar these days. Many many fans enjoy wrestling for the pure spectacle and couldn’t give a shit about stories and psychology. They should be catered to. 
 

As always, weirdos on Twitter are not the barometer to judge entire fanbase/doms/viewers/enjoyers of tv shows on.

I do think there's a place for it but there's a limit to how successful talent can be with that style. Same with just random high flying moves and no meaning behind it. Especially in a company like WWE. The crowd may like a little spot here and there but you'll rarely get a top talent with that basic style rather than someone who has developed beyond it. Giving people a reason to care will always be better than a few meaningless flips. Guys like AJ Styles and Ospreay have learnt that over the years.

[air_raid]

And of course, the worst thing about the debate regarding this particular sequence is that it triggers another wave of tribal baiting - in this case, Universe loyalists rounding on the criticism with a unanimous wave of “But you loved when Ospreay did this” to the AEW herd.  The worst thing about modern fandom is how people can’t stick to a critique of either side’s product, they have to obsess about what the other “teams” supporters are talking about too. It’s exhausting to read, even by accident.

Most people defending the execution are missing the point anyway. We all know wrestling is a cooperative performance, that’s not the issue. It’s not even the issue that we know a high speed, complex and athletic series of reversals needed much communication and probably rehearsing, the issue is when it looks like it. Suspend my disbelief.

Example - the famed opening to Low Ki vs Amazing Red from 2002 took loads of coordination and was no doubt rehearsed, but it looked great and played with intensity - it still looked like two men trying to hit each other. It’s similar to the reason that the first time people saw the Dean and Eddy roll ups it looked like two men trying to out wrestle each other and every other match that does it plays like a performance inspired by another performance. We know it’s not real but it has to be believable.

Edited July 9 by air_raid
switch it up like Nintendo

[Snitsky's back acne]

17 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

 My point was back when Ospreay/Ricochet did it, it was widely rubbished as gymnast bollocks and it was the death of wrestling. 

Not by Meltzer. He loved it.

He didn't like this and thought it was 'an overly choreographed gymnastics routine' however.

Very odd. 

[BomberPat]

it's only "odd" if you think that the two are exactly the same in all other respects. I'm not a great fan of the Ospreay/Ricochet match, but they were much better at what they were doing than this clip, which looks far more choreographed and pre-planned. 

I've seen indie wrestlers have move-for-move the same match as a Wrestlemania main event, yet it would be ridiculous to claim that to say one was shit and the other wasn't was somehow being hypocritical.

[Snitsky's back acne]

57 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

it's only "odd" if you think that the two are exactly the same in all other respects. I'm not a great fan of the Ospreay/Ricochet match, but they were much better at what they were doing than this clip, which looks far more choreographed and pre-planned. 

I've seen indie wrestlers have move-for-move the same match as a Wrestlemania main event, yet it would be ridiculous to claim that to say one was shit and the other wasn't was somehow being hypocritical.

It's odd because one is hailed as excellent while the other as amateur, yet when you look at the two sequences in conjunction with each other (as several people on Twitter have done by posting and playing both simultaneously) you can see that they are incredibly similar in execution and style. Both sequences looked choreographed and were flawlessly executed. 

Meltzer has his biases the same as everyone else. I have no issue with that per se as he is allowed his opinion. However to declare one a masterpiece and the other choreographed bullshit because of where they were performed and who was involved is disingenuous and hypocritical. 

Edited July 9 by Snitsky's back acne

[Devon Malcolm]

In fairness, it's also probably not really a coincidence that Dave Meltzer would favour an Ospreay/Ricochet Japanese match over an NXT match though.

[RedTwoster]

I'm not sure whether NXT PPV chat belongs in here, or the minor PPV thread - so I'll avoid sharing any spoilers. 

What I will say though, is that I don't really think Joe Hendry is working out in NXT. He delivers his promos as if he's a heel, and his concerts and songs have been weak. He's brilliant at parody songs, but none of his music in NXT has been parody, or particularly memorable. Strip away the singing gimmick, and I'm not sure you have a sustainable act once the viral buzz quietens down. At least, not at the moment anyway. 

[DavidB6937]

41 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

What I will say though, is that I don't really think Joe Hendry is working out in NXT. He delivers his promos as if he's a heel, and his concerts and songs have been weak. He's brilliant at parody songs, but none of his music in NXT has been parody, or particularly memorable. Strip away the singing gimmick, and I'm not sure you have a sustainable act once the viral buzz quietens down. At least, not at the moment anyway. 

He's okay. Nothing more than that at the moment because he's not been given any substance, either as a more serious act that wants to succeed or delving deeper into the parody side of stuff which we know he's strong at. He's just been appearing with a very small glimpse of what he can offer I think, which is a shame. Depends on how much time and effort they want to put into him really. He's more entertaining over on TNA because he's been doing stuff like he did with the Hardys recently which was fun.

I kinda get it. It's the challenging side of having companies work together isn't it? How much time and effort do you invest in a guy who isn't actually yours?

[Weezenal]

Why are they working together? What’s the benefit?

[RedTwoster]

5 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

He's okay. Nothing more than that at the moment because he's not been given any substance, either as a more serious act that wants to succeed or delving deeper into the parody side of stuff which we know he's strong at. He's just been appearing with a very small glimpse of what he can offer I think, which is a shame. Depends on how much time and effort they want to put into him really. He's more entertaining over on TNA because he's been doing stuff like he did with the Hardys recently which was fun.

I kinda get it. It's the challenging side of having companies work together isn't it? How much time and effort do you invest in a guy who isn't actually yours?

To be fair, they put him in a title match and they've given him plenty of TV time to show what he can do - although there's certainly a chance that they interfered with his segments to the point they didn't match his original vision. It's his delivery on promos - he comes across very insincere, and a bit heelish. Again, it could be a product of interference ("slow down! No one can understand your Scottish accent") but whatever the case, it's not working for me. 

That said, the whole point of developmental is to iron out the kinks, and I could absolutely see them trying to do that with Hendry. His ability to self-promote and go viral is impressive, and potentially still makes him a useful signing. 

10 minutes ago, Weezenal said:

Why are they working together? What’s the benefit?

Keeps things fresh I suppose, it also gives NXT talent another place to work and learn and also gives WWE the opportunity to trial a few wrestlers to see if they're worth signing when their contracts expire. Jordynne Grace, for example, has looked very impressive - her contract apparently expires in January 2025. NXT gets the chance to work with her and develop her early, and potentially create a faster path to the main roster. 

Alternatively, if they were interested in a TNA talent and they came into the NXT locker room and had a terrible attitude, WWE would know not to bother. From TNA's perspective, it gives them exposure and reminds people they still exist. 

[Hannibal Scorch]

28 minutes ago, Weezenal said:

Why are they working together? What’s the benefit?

Access to talent they want under contract elsewhere. They are definitely after Grace and Hendry including letting them train at the performance centre and Grace announcing she’ll be closing her only fans down in the next few months.

As for TNA, they have had some NXT talent come down (though a collection of people you’d never heard of as they are hardly on TV). They sold 4000 ish tickets for Slammiversary (but tickets started at $10 Canadian) and their TV ratings have continued downwards so it feels very one sided. AEW got a lot of stick when they worked with Impact, but at least they sent AEW champion Kenny Omega and they saw a decent spike in both TV ratings and PPV buys.

With all that said I watched the main event which was really bland. Joe seems to be the most over wrestler from when his music hits until the bell rings. He’s super basic in the ring and his gimmick being watered down in NXT is doing him no favours.