King Coconut Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Well, exactly! You're saying yourself that everything is currently going as it should be. Edited November 17, 2020 by King Coconut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted November 17, 2020 Moderators Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, FelatioLips said: I just want some clearer results and details than what we have now before I go and get it. This is the crux of my original question. How much assurance is enough? I genuinely want to know if there is something they can day that will make you think "ok cool, let's go". Given that neither of us is scientific enough to understand the details what are your criteria? It seems like it is only how long it's been tested for, and it occurs to me that that might not be the best metric.and I'm not sure how you decided on it. I really think making gut, emotional, uninformed decisions about something like this where we have no understanding of the context is both a natural thing for your brain to do, but also an impulse that you need to rationalise and realise consciously for what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted November 17, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 17, 2020 Just now, King Coconut said: Well, exactly! You're saying yourself that everything is currently going as it should be. Well kinda, yeah! I just mean when it does go public I’m hoping there’s more clear cut info on side effects  1 minute ago, Chest Rockwell said: This is the crux of my original question. How much assurance is enough? I genuinely want to know if there is something they can day that will make you think "ok cool, let's go". Given that neither of us is scientific enough to understand the details what are your criteria? It seems like it is only how long it's been tested for, and it occurs to me that that might not be the best metric.and I'm not sure how you decided on it. I really think making gut, emotional, uninformed decisions about something like this where we have no understanding of the context is both a natural thing for your brain to do, but also an impulse that you need to rationalise and realise consciously for what it is. Well it comes down to this in a nutshell; I’m not anti-vax, I have all my jabs, my kids will have all theirs. I don’t care what goes into vaccines or anything like that and I won’t pretend to know the science behind them. This is a brand new vaccine with very little but currently successful testing. When it gets rolled out to the public, if they’re still saying they don’t know the full extent of the mid-longer term effects, I won’t rush out to get it unless necessary. If they come out and say tests have shown little to no chance of long term effects or the long term effects are minor compared to Covid then chances are I’ll get it. I just want enough facts to make an informed decision by the time it’s released and don’t want to just rush out and get it first thing before I even know how it might effect me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Coconut Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 The vaccines that we all had as children were not tested any more vigorously than any future vaccines will be. If anything, as I'm sure you can imagine, the standards have improved immeasurably with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 17, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, King Coconut said: The vaccines that we all had as children were not tested any more vigorously than any future vaccines will be. If anything, as I'm sure you can imagine, the standards have improved immeasurably with time. Are you really saying vaccines we were given as kids were only tested for 6 months before being put out to the public? Thalidomide was apparently safe, but as it wasn't tested on pregnant woman they later discovered the issues. Even on the NHS website it confirms this "It often takes many years for a vaccine to make it through the trials and tests it needs to pass for approval." I am all for vaccines, but I can't say for sure I have as much confidence in a vaccine pushed through this quickly as being completely safe unless there is some conclusive scientific discussions about the cocktail. Edited November 17, 2020 by Hannibal Scorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, FelatioLips said: I’m not against others getting it No, I imagine not. 43 minutes ago, FelatioLips said: I don’t see how this is such a controversial take or how me not wanting to get it immediately means I want another year of full lockdown. People have been asking how long you're willing to wait for these long-term tests to be completed, so not a full year then? So how long? Six months you mentioned? Or does that depend on the rest of us getting vaccinated so there are no more lockdowns, and you get to personally wait without any trade-off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 These vaccines have been going through clinical trials though. That's kinda of the point. They have been with humans and iirc the oxford one was briefly stopped following a reaction. https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3525 The Janssen one is listed here https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/fourth-large-scale-covid-19-vaccine-trial-begins-united-states Pfizer's are listed here https://www.pfizer.com/science/find-a-trial/search/COVID-19 Oxford Trials are here https://www.research.ox.ac.uk/Article/2020-07-19-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-trials It's a horrid indictment of society that people are just choosing to ignore everything spurred on by internet paranoia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Surf Digby Posted November 17, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 17, 2020 9 hours ago, poetofthedeed said: Caveat included: Morgan is a cunt That was one of the most beautiful 90 second destructions I have ever seen. All facts as well. Fuck me sideways. And even though his response was cut short, it was 5 seconds of cringeworthy nothing-speak, just waffle because he doesn't have an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted November 17, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Uncle Zeb said: No, I imagine not. People have been asking how long you're willing to wait for these long-term tests to be completed, so not a full year then? So how long? Six months you mentioned? Or does that depend on the rest of us getting vaccinated so there are no more lockdowns, and you get to personally wait without any trade-off? No set time, just until the people making and testing them know more about the possible effects like I’ve already said. I feel like you think this is a huge gotcha on me but I said in the very first post I’m happy to wait for others to get it and see what happens before I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted November 17, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, patiirc said: These vaccines have been going through clinical trials though. That's kinda of the point. They have been with humans and iirc the oxford one was briefly stopped following a reaction. https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3525 The Janssen one is listed here https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/fourth-large-scale-covid-19-vaccine-trial-begins-united-states Pfizer's are listed here https://www.pfizer.com/science/find-a-trial/search/COVID-19 Oxford Trials are here https://www.research.ox.ac.uk/Article/2020-07-19-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-trials It's a horrid indictment of society that people are just choosing to ignore everything spurred on by internet paranoia. Yeah we discussed this already. I’m aware of the short term results but if you read the same thing I’ve repeated a dozen times now I want to see longer term effects. I feel like I’m going in circles now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted November 17, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 17, 2020 Enjoy staying in lockdown for the next 10 years buddy. By then any side effects should be known, but if I was you I'd give it 20 years just to make sure. You should be able to see any side effects the rest of us have by then. I will happily be your guinea pig and if I happen to father any children that have 3 arms or wings I will let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 minute ago, FelatioLips said: Yeah we discussed this already. I’m aware of the short term results but if you read the same thing I’ve repeated a dozen times now I want to see longer term effects. I feel like I’m going in circles now. So at the risk of repeating what others have said. We carry on as we are forever? Until that 'itch is scratched'? There's been nothing like this in terms of Vaccine development, effectively it's carte blanche and from my understanding of it, the vaccines work pretty straightforwardly. I appreciate the apprehension, however you've already had the virus if I am remembering right, would you want to keep catching it and thus puting yourself and others at risk of death repeatedly? This is an unprecedented situation in our time, their are and continue to be massive shifts in research, public reaction and pretty much every part of life. Even with a vaccine the world we knew is going to be substantially different and will take decades to recover from. As this situation escalates vaccines, much like the flu jab will continue to eveolve and be developed, especially if their are mutations and the like.  I'm thinking that eventually we will end up with a joint flu/covid style vaccine situation and go from their. Long term, well there isnt going to be one if this continues in it's current form. Deaths are well over a million and world wide there has been 55 million cases (just shy of the total UK Populus being infected) https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ If that rate grows even a little then we are all jiggered ;/  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted November 17, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 17, 2020 When a doctor tells me take X medication to cure Z i dont ask how long they have been tested for or demand to see the data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted November 17, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 hour ago, FelatioLips said: This is a brand new vaccine with very little but currently successful testing. When it gets rolled out to the public, if they’re still saying they don’t know the full extent of the mid-longer term effects, I won’t rush out to get it unless necessary. If they come out and say tests have shown little to no chance of long term effects or the long term effects are minor compared to Covid then chances are I’ll get it. I just want enough facts to make an informed decision by the time it’s released and don’t want to just rush out and get it first thing before I even know how it might effect me. I’m just going to post this again and leave it at that because I feel people are deliberately just ignoring what i’m saying now. If it’s necessary for me to get it, I’ll get it. If not then I just want to know more about possible (even predicted) side effects before I do. It’s been boring enough without me going in circles with the likes of Uncle Zeb and Pat when I’ve already explained myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, FelatioLips said: I feel like you think this is a huge gotcha on me but I said in the very first post I’m happy to wait for others to get it and see what happens before I get it. I know people on here love a gotcha (unless it's Noel Edmunds doing it) but that's not me, so I'm curious why you say that. We're actually just debating a topic, and if you feel we're going round in circles it's because you're not really addressing the criticisms of the points you're making. Principally, what and who are you willing to sacrifice while awaiting the as-yet-unspecified moment when "not sufficiently tested" becomes, in your untrained opinion, "sufficiently tested"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.