(Re)watching Terrible Shows

[The Gaffer]

3 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

Same.

My only real issue with 2000 WCW is how sad it is to see shows held in smaller and smaller arenas which they often can't even fill.

But if I'm going to watch a three hour show I'd rather it be a ridiculously overbooked clusterfuck featuring stars I actually know and remember rather than something like a modern NXT Takeover show which, while I'm sure is technically brilliant and features some good wresting, I'd imagine that lacks much in the way of stuff I can laugh at or take the piss out of.

Some of my most watched PPV's ever are what many would these days call 'shit', such as Wrestlemania 9, Starrcade 90 etc. 

Psst...Takeovers do nothing for me either. Think there's a small tribe of us scattered around the place. 

It's evidently just not for me. That's fine. 

[The Dart]

I think I get more enjoyment of watching the bad old stuff than the good old stuff.  I tried watching December to Dismember a few weeks ago though and turned it off after Striker vs. Mahoney (2nd match).  I'm getting old, there's less time to waste on horseshit like that these days.

[garynysmon]

1 hour ago, Gay as FOOK said:

Psst...Takeovers do nothing for me either. Think there's a small tribe of us scattered around the place. 

It's evidently just not for me. That's fine. 

TBH its not my place to say that the presentation of NXT is 'shit,' as its the style that most promotions are doing these days. The WWE isn't exactly going bankrupt and there are more wrestling companies around at the moment than any time within the last 20 years, so its obviously pleasing enough people.

I went to a show in Liverpool last year, in reality I only went because it was combined with a live Bruce Prichard 'Something to Wrestle' show and had the Godfather there. Beforehand I wasn't really aware of 90% of the card, which was basically the UK wrestling scene, but enjoyed it immensely. 

That said, that kind of presentation is something I would (and have) enjoyed live but not so sure I would ever sit down and watch on TV. As a kid I'd often fast forward matches to the finish and even now its too easy to change the channel when its long-ish match after long-ish match. I've never been that into the technical aspect of wrestling, give me a great promo or a Sid Vicious squash over a 5* New Japan match any day. 

The crowds at any NXT etc card seem to be having a whale of a time, but for me personally it doesn't translate to anything I'd actually want to watch at home for three hours or whatever. 

It may just be a sign of getting older as in I watch so much fewer live football matches on TV than I used to, and am much more likely to watch MOTD2 on a Sunday night to make sure I was up to date.

But essentially I am very stuck in my ways and will forever be in a vortex that 1992 WWF is about as perfect a wrestling product (to my tastes) as there will ever be. I.e nothing wrong with short matches, squashes every week which means that when a good to great match comes along (Bulldog v Bret etc) it means that so much more.  Its probably why I like to watch the NWA these days.

The further we get from that and with everyone from the 90's pretty much retired now, I have little to no inclination to go back and try and get familiar with modern day WWE and a roster, not to mention the non-main roster, which is just a plethora of names I've read on here but couldn't point out in a police line-up.

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by garynysmon

[Little Johnny]

2 hours ago, garynysmon said:

Same.

My only real issue with 2000 WCW is how sad it is to see shows held in smaller and smaller arenas which they often can't even fill.

But if I'm going to watch a three hour show I'd rather it be a ridiculously overbooked clusterfuck featuring stars I actually know and remember rather than something like a modern NXT Takeover show which, while I'm sure is technically brilliant and features some good wresting, I'd imagine that lacks much in the way of stuff I can laugh at or take the piss out of.

Some of my most watched PPV's ever are what many would these days call 'shit', such as Wrestlemania 9, Starrcade 90 etc. 

They are shit though, Gary, and no mistake. As was the majority of WCW's 2000 stuff. And in the long run, Vince Russo's whiplash 'something for everyone on the roster' booking was just as numbing an experience as today's match-heavy presentation.

The fact that you, much like everyone else, is getting older doesn't really come into it.

[tiger_rick]

Superbrawl 2000

Cheers for the suggestion @Gay as FOOK - I was already watching this.

Tl;dr: Fucking horrendous.

I've seen this before because I bought the video but I've obviously wiped it from my memory. I will be planning to again. It's atrocious from the off. the opening packages are terrible in production and every word that comes out of a mouth is nonsense. The package says the nWo are in turmoil. They've not even been together 2 months. The first words out of Schiavone's mouth after it are "How do you get better than this?" We should have a suggestions thread. They run down the match and Tenay says "Which Hogan will he be facing? Hulk Hogan, Hollywood Hogan or a deadly combination of the two?" What does that even suggest?

The crowd is decent in number and noise. There's a decent set. Even got Snickers sponsorship on the ring. It's all far more big time than they deserve.

I've always hated Prince Iaukea. TAFKAPI is such a dreadful joke. His look is horrific too. Wrestling in shiny trousers and a black shirt. Lash LeRoux was another rip-off. Or would have been if he had anything about him to carry off his Rock tribute act. Action was as ropey as fuck long before LeRoux nearly killed himself setting up the finish. He was supposed to miss the rana as Paisley held on to The Artist but he missed the head with his legs anyway and landed on his head. Not sure how he didn't break his neck.

Bigelow vs. Knobbs is a frightening prospect. I was a big fan of Bigelow a year earlier. He wasn't in great shape here though. He was wearing a jumper over his usual gear. They showed a video of Finlay costing Knobbs the title about two weeks earlier. For some reason Finlay then helped Knobbs win on this show and they hugged. Don't ask.

Screaming Norman and 3 Count are two of the few things I still liked in WCW in Feb 2000. They worked hard. Smiley worked particularly hard because two of 3 Count were green as shit. Helms was good though. Karagias useless. He blew a high five at one point.

Demon vs. The Wall sounds bad on paper and is somehow worse. How much did they spend on the production and pyro for The Demon? That's without what they were paying Kiss. Jesus. The three moves the Demon hit without Wall blowing it were impressive but the crowd still chanted "boring". Wall's conditioning made Big Show at December to Dismember look like Mo Farah.

The notorious Tank Abbott vs. Big Al match is next. Fair play to them for trying to get long time jobber Al Green over as some sort of legit fighter. Russo isn't even there and this is a Leather Jacket on a pole match. Abbott has no clue how it all works. He took one punch and lay asleep for a couple of minutes while Al climbed on his face. Otherwise, Tank just punches the shit out of him. Then he tries to climb the pole with Al on his shoulders, becomes unsteady and just drops him about ten feet onto his head. Tank mercifully wins, then pulls out his knife and tells an unconscious Al "I could fucking kill you". You all know this next bit, Schiavone says he thinks it's some scissors and he's going to cut Al's beard off. Al is clean shaven.

Not sure how I got to the package to set up Booker T vs. Big T and carried on watching. Hideous. WCW had no interest in Ahmed when he left the WWF in 1998. They certainly got desperate enough. He was atrocious here. Looking and working. Booker is far too good for this shit and does show it despite working with a tackle dummy. Lights went out and some random fat bloke appeared (think he was one of Master P's useless goons in '99). Booker stopped and stared and ate a Pearl River Plunge. Ahmed was almost too knackered to cover him. One of the most offensive jobs in history. Though Booker would be on the end of a worse one a couple of years later!

Vampiro is atrocious. How terrible do you have to be to have a crap match with Billy Kidman? This is the first match of the show to go beyond 6 minutes, which is pretty merciful. Torrie Wilson though. Wow. Not sure what on earth the finish was supposed to be. Kidman won.

Stretcher matches are tedious. Throw in the Mamalukes and David Flair and this is nigh on unwatchable. Mamalukes win by taping Crowbar to the stretcher which completely defies the point of the match. Same old WCW.

Ernest Miller brought out James Brown and I remembered I'd definitely seen this before. It's a naff segment that famously added no buys because the whole angle was that Miller is the boy who cried wolf. At least he didn't wrestle.

I'm going to pretend that Flair and Funk never had a match after 1989. Still, at least Flair won. Didn't happen too often in WCW after 1994.

Couldn't help spending Luger & Hogan thinking that 2 1/2 years earlier they had one of the funnest, hottest match in Nitro history. This was the other way around, with Luger over-selling so much HBK told him to wind it in a bit and Hogan in red & yellow failing to be some deadly combination of anything.

The main event left me as sad as it did at the time. The absolute state of Scott Hall. The state of Roddy Piper. Jeff Jarrett's hideously mid-card act in a main event - dragging the fucking Harris Boys along for the ride. Sid is the shits at this point and he's by far the best thing in the match.

There's no "so bad it's good" quality about this. It's just awful. No wonder I didn't mind Russo coming back.

 

[JakeRobertsParoleOfficer]

Halloween Havoc 98. 

One can only imagine what insanity (and powder) was going on behind the scenes to churn out this! 

This is terrific in its badness and baffling lineup. Probably sporting the greatest wrestling roster in history at the time and you end up with:

Wrath, meng, Disco, Finlay, Wright, Saturn, Lodi etc on the card??? 

An utter mess form start to finish the highlight is of course the 8 years in the making rematch between Hogan and Warrior. 

A match they try and recreate spot for spot.... Badly! 

Warrior, about 30lbs shy of his 1990 self, a tonne of ring rust and 2 torn biceps has the timing of norman wisdom in there and Hogan (usually a reliable hand) is equally off. 

A highlight is an insane botch where Hogan tries to throw a fireball in warriors face but only manages to hit his own boat! 

The beauty of this ppv is that it was right in wcw hot period, features hogan, warrior, Hall, nash, steiner, sting, ddp, bret Hart, Goldberg  etc and yet is still prolapse inducingly bad! 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by JakeRobertsParoleOfficer

[The King Of Swing]

Meng was fucking class.

[WyattSheepMask]

I’ve been working my way though WCW 2000 PPVs recently, although I’m not watching the TV alongside it. Most recent was Great American Bash 2000. Holy hell, what a fucking mess.

* Disco Inferno, whose now one of the Filthy Animals and dressed in hip-hop gear, took on Chaco for the Cruiserweight belt, which had some post-match stuff of Major Gunns giving some old codger mouth to mouth

* Mike Awesome beat DDP in an Ambulance Match - which started off with needing to put the other on a stretcher, which they then abandon completely a few minutes in. Watching this back reminded that I fucking loved Mike Awesome. His match psychology was shit (Taker’s dive meant something because he did it once a year, Awesome’s meant dick because he did it 40 seconds into every match) but he was BIG MOVE, BIG MOVE, BIG MOVE, BIG MOVE followed by a BIG MOVE. He was Brock v Goldberg from WM33, but every night.

* Shane Douglas v The Wall in a Tables Match - for seemingly no reason, it might’ve had TV build but if it did they didn’t recap anything. Franchise says about making it a Best of 5, and then asks “who wants to see 5 Tables get broken?”, which confuses the commentators no end as they repeatedly ask “5 broken tables? So is this Best of 9 then?” The finish comes as they just wander over to a Ladder that’s set up near 3 stacked tables. No idea how it got there, but the match ends with Wall taking a bump through the 3 tables- “He’s gone through 3, he’s got to go through 2 more.....oh no wait, that’s it”

* Scott Steiner v Tank Abbot in an Asylum Match - a match where they fight in a circular cage that fits inside WCW’s famously smaller than normal sized ring. Rick Steiner gets added to make it a handicap match, and the three of them are fighting in a cage no more than 12ft in diameter. Tank gets out a chain to hit Scott, but Rick tells “nah mate, that’s overstepping the mark”. Tank then sort of glances Rick with the chain, Scott gets the upper hand by hitting Tank in the dick, which was the style at the time, locks in the Steiner-Recliner for the win at 3:46. Scott Steiner won a handicap cage match in under 4 minutes!

* Sting v Vampiro in the Human Torch Match - Sting appears on top of the set with the flaming torch and says “if you want to torch me you’ll have to get up here boy”. Naturally, Sting then gets down from where he’s just told Vampiro to meet him and they start in the ring. Eventually they make their way up, and we get the Thunder Sound FX and Strobe Lights which Russo would reuse in TNA for the Electrified Cage at Lockdown 2007. This is of course so don’t see the switcheroo from Sting to the Stuntman, who gets set on fire and takes a flip bump from the top of the set to the stage below. It’s gets even better next month when they have a Graveyard Match which you can see even less of.

Also includes Hogan dwarfing Billy Kidman in singles, Ric v David Flair and Nash v Jarrett for the World Title that featured Goldberg’s heel turn in one of Russo’s “no-one would expect it bro!” moments. Yeah, and for a fucking good reason, you tit.

Edited January 28, 2020 by WyattSheepMask

[CTXRussomark]

5 hours ago, tiger_rick said:

The notorious Tank Abbott vs. Big Al match is next. Fair play to them for trying to get long time jobber Al Green over as some sort of legit fighter. 

 

Different guy.  Al Green was The Dog during this period. Big Al was just some pal of Tank's. But yeah, dogshit PPV.  Uncensored the following month is just as bad. 

[PowerButchi]

And The Dog went to join with Knobbs and Finay after this PPV too Rick.

[Magnum Milano]

Just now, CTXRussomark said:

Different guy.  Al Green was The Dog during this period. Big Al was just some pal of Tank's. But yeah, dogshit PPV.  Uncensored the following month is just as bad. 

Yeah, that's got the abomination of a Dustin Rhodes vs Terry Funk match on it.  You wouldn't think these two would be able to craft a match so bad but boy do they do so here!

Quote

Funk comes out with a raw chicked on his fist. He’s got a microphone and says that he sees a chicken in the ring and the only difference between Dustin and his old man is that his old man is much fatter than he is! He then claims to have Dustin’s baby brother here, but it’s not Cody, it’s some dressed in a chicken suit. The ‘chicken’ gets in the ring, hits Dustin and Rhodes chases off after him, only to get nailed in the aisle by Funk’s ‘chicken fist’. Irish whip into the guard rail and he throws Dustin back in the ring. He peppers him with rights before whipping him with the bullrope. DDT for two. Funk with a clothesline, he clobbers Dustin with the cow bell but it makes no sound! Two count as Dustin grabs the ropes. Funk argues the count with Billy Silverman and Dustin with a low blow. He chokes the ‘Funker’ with the bullrope, who then struggles to get himself in position for his ‘rebound’ spot where he’s sat on the middle rope. Dustin hits him with the cowbell as Funk rocks back and forward until he falls to the floor. Rhodes with a pair of two counts, a bulldog on the cowbell but he’s still not able to put Funk away. The guy in the chicken suit is back out and he attacks Dustin until Rhodes slugs him with the cowbell. As this is going on they’re playing some audio of a hen house (presumably over the PA). Christ this is bad! Funk with a low blow using the cowbell and he’s changing the rules of the match from a ‘bullrope match’ to an ‘I Quit’ match. Referee Silverman tries to tell him that he can’t do that and Funk wallops him with the cowbell and throws him out the ring. He continues to hit Dustin in the head trying to get him to ‘quit’. Rhodes eventually does and Funk raises his arm, however the ref puts it back down as the commentators reiterate this ‘is not’ and ‘I Quit’ match. Dustin waffles him with the cowbell, piledriver on the cowbell and this is mercifully over. Oh no, it’s not! They fight some more before Dustin’s finally had enough.

Where to begin? This felt like it would never end! Funk with a raw chicken on his fists, liberal interference from a guy dressed in a chicken costume, hen house noises over the PA, Funk trying to change the rules of the match as it was going on, a cowbell that made no noise. Need I go on? If the work between the wrestlers was any good it might’ve redeemed this slightly, but it wasn’t; it was repetitive, pedestrian and Funk looked so old in there. Check out the crowd too. Deafening silence for the majority of this and look how we get more and more empty seats as the match progresses! The worst!

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Magnum Milano

[tiger_rick]

7 hours ago, CTXRussomark said:

Different guy.  Al Green was The Dog during this period. Big Al was just some pal of Tank's. But yeah, dogshit PPV.  Uncensored the following month is just as bad. 

 

6 hours ago, PowerButchi said:

And The Dog went to join with Knobbs and Finay after this PPV too Rick.

Cheers both. I thought so but I checked Wikipedia. Not to be trusted.

[tiger_rick]

21 hours ago, Liam O'Rourke said:

2004 Great American Bash....that would be fun.

Challenge accepted.

WWE Great American Bash 2004

Tl;dr: Infuriating.

I obviously watched this at the time. Despite a ropey 2002/03, especially on Raw, I was still very much a regular WWE viewer at this point. Twice a week, every week, and pretty much every PPV. It wasn't until 2006 that I started skipping bits and then 2008 and 2009 before I'd go weeks or months without watching.

I was a massive fan of Eddie Guerrero's title win. That whole story of him beating Brock, the redemption promos and the crossover with Brock/Goldberg is some of their finest work. I was also a big fan of Smackdown through 2002 and most of 2003. It had started to get real ugly in some of the mid-card but Eddie on top was keeping it going.

Torrie Wilson opened the show dressed as a sexy Uncle Sam. Tick. V.G.

It was US Champ Cena vs. Booker vs. RVD vs. Dupree up first. There were huge Cena chants - he's super over. I enjoyed this. It was a well thought out elimination match. Booker and RVD were smart enough to just stand outside at times and let them get on with it. Why wouldn't you in an elimination match? it didn't help RVD though, he saw an opportunity to get involved and got rolled up by Cena. Came down to Cena and Booker who always had decent chemistry. Cena wins. Really fun opener.

Jackie Gayda and Sable were also wearing next to fuck all, as was Dawn Marie later. Not complaining.

Wheelchair Kurt turned up backstage to bollock Charlie Haas. Wheelchair Kurt is a brilliant.

Haas has to fight Luther Reigns. Supposedly a punishment but only a punishment for the paying customers. Reigns was dull and green. Default setting for anyone who came out of the Power Plant.

Billy Gunn fights Kenzo Suzuki. Not bad, just deathly dull. Suzuki wins. No-one remotely gives a shit.

Torrie Wilson is the hottest thing on earth but she's no wrestler. Neither is Sable. Doesn't stop them booking them in a match together. It's shit. The finish is a massive botch. Who's surprised?

Mordecai's entrance brings back the nightmares. I remember being quite excited about him from the vignettes. Cole says he doesn't know why Mordecai and Holly were brawling on Smackdown which is a great premise for them to have a match. And funnily enough, the crowd could not care less. This is also boring. Mordecai was probably already dead but this is the icing on the grave.

We don't talk enough these days about how absolutely fucking brilliant Eddie Guerrero was. I'm not convinced there has ever been a better all-rounder. There's nothing he can't do and can't do magnificently. His selling is as good as anyone, his expressions are phenomenal and his offence is flawless. He was like Bret Hart on promos. Always authentic but nervous but hit his stride this year. he was consistently better than Bret from this point though. His character work was always brilliant going right back through WCW. I'd been a fan for ages at this point and that run through February was the reward. I was still naive enough to believe the whole redemption story too rather than seeing it was what it was - Eddie being just another "victim" of a horrible, scuzzy business.

What a babyface he was too. Eddie was super, super over. this holds up as a really great match too. Despite having a really naff stipulation, they work well with it, JBL pulls his weight and takes a right bashing with a chair in revenge for Eddie's hideous blade job the month before. In any other circumstances, I'd love this match. It should be the story of the heroic babyface vanquishing the challenger of the (two) month(s) and it would have untold rewatch value.

But that finish. It's the worst. Not only is the result one of the most unbelievable and unwanted in history but the dusty finish just adds another layer of garbage to the whole mess. Eddie is brilliant in hindsight. His selling of the defeat is like nothing you've ever seen. Wheelchair Kurt is a dick.

So, how do you follow that? With no-one's favourite - the handicap match, the Dudley Boyz in a PPV main event, The Undertaker selling for 15 minutes and Heyman trying to sell this ludicrous situation for about 2 years on the mic. Taker wins and then makes the whole story and match pointless at the end anyway by burying Paul Bearer in porridge. Wonderful.

This is a show of three distinct parts. The opening and the first match are good. The next hour and a bit is as boring as anything you'd put your money down for. The last hour is enough to have your blood boiling. I had the strange sensation of enjoying the Eddie/JBL match for their work but feeling my anger rising as the finish approached. I'll be honest, I'd forgotten how bad the end is. I remembered it being a fluke. I'd forgotten the "dusty finish" aspect. It's been 16 years, get over it. NEVER!

[BomberPat]

10 hours ago, WyattSheepMask said:

* Disco Inferno, whose now one of the Filthy Animals and dressed in hip-hop gear, took on Chaco for the Cruiserweight belt, which had some post-match stuff of Major Gunns giving some old codger mouth to mouth

It was less than a year ago that I realised them renaming Disco Inferno to "Disqo" and sticking him with the Filthy Animals was a riff on Sisqo. 

[Liam O'Rourke]

Awesome review. Our timeframes on viewing consistency match up pretty much perfectly Rick. 

I remember this period as just ripping the guts out of the Smackdown depth. Look at these wankers. Luther, Kenzo and Mordecai all put over in singles matches on PPV. I vividly remember Kenzo missing a shining wizard by a county mile in that match, pitiful stuff. 

Eddie losing was heartbreaking, but my God, him selling the loss in the corner is beautiful. If only it was setting up a rematch and another round of redemption. Very sad.

There are few WWE PPV main events ever that are as absolutely pathetic as Taker Vs. Dudleyz with Bearer's life on the line. The crowd is silent, the action stinks, and the finish sucks balls. So of course they move Taker to a title feud so No Mercy can do the worst buyrate in years. Undertaker was dreadful in 2004.