hallicks Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I don't have a horse in that particular race, but does being geographically outside of Europe present something of a problem for countries wishing to join the EU? Isn't Turkey mostly not geographically in Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I don't think that's the main issue: Turkey has land borders with other European countries, so it's not like we're considering admitting Israel or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 There are several issues regarding Turkey, amongst which are their horrendous human rights record and current policy towards Kurdistan, and also their occupation of Northern Cyprus, which isn't recognised by any EU states. IIRC, the EU is also strongly opposed to capital punishment, which Turkey still has as part of its criminal judicial system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Carbomb said: There are several issues regarding Turkey, amongst which are their horrendous human rights record and current policy towards Kurdistan, and also their occupation of Northern Cyprus, which isn't recognised by any EU states. IIRC, the EU is also strongly opposed to capital punishment, which Turkey still has as part of its criminal judicial system. Not to mention the fact that potential Turkish membership is exploited by those on the right to bang the drum about free movement of Muslim migrants from Turkey to the west under the EU's freedom of movement policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I don't think I have ever seen a British PM shot of all authority and credibility as May is at this moment. That PMQs...not a single MP defended her on all sides. It truly is a stunning display. She has handled this appallingly. Its like our own Gerald Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Factotum said: I don't think I have ever seen a British PM shot of all authority and credibility as May is at this moment. That PMQs...not a single MP defended her on all sides. It truly is a stunning display. She has handled this appallingly. Its like our own Gerald Ford. In fairness, has there been anyone else in a position such as this? She was essentially put in this position to lose. There is literally nothing she could or can do that would allow her to leave this situation as a success. She's the captain of a ship that simply isn't fit for the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 One thing that does intrigue me: seeing as the EU were prepared to make an exception for NI in terms of the backstop, theoretically this means it's possible for regions, rather than countries, to sign up to it? In which case, given that Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain, surely it would benefit the UK's efforts to hold the union together if they negotiated a deal that would allow Scotland to stay in the common market, while taking the rest of the country out? It's more difficult than NI because of the border, but we've been told increasingly that it's possible to operate excise and customs electronically now, so perhaps that's a possibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Quote In fairness, has there been anyone else in a position such as this? She was essentially put in this position to lose. There is literally nothing she could or can do that would allow her to leave this situation as a success. She could have done a lot of things different. She's had over 3 years to reach out for cross party talks, this was the biggest crisis facing the country since the war...and she called an election to drive through a hard line Brexit. After losing her majority, she then failed to engage with MPs on all sides and their communities on the plans for Brexit. What type of Brexit has she ever been going for? She's allowed herself to be bullied by Brexit hardliners. Show flexibility. Get rid of David Davis who was doing nothing for 2 years. Properly assess the Northern Ireland situation which is fucking huge but seems to have been pushed aside until the last minute. Stop repeating the phrase 'will of the people' while ignoring the 48% of the country who didn't vote for this and have been dismissed by her rather than reached out to. There's a fuck ton she could have done, she just hasn't as she's a stubborn, arrogant and thoroughly unpleasant person coupled with being a terrible leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 I mean, she could have worked out what the UK wanted from the EU negotiations before triggering a two year deadline for those negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenryck Pilchards Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Carbomb said: There are several issues regarding Turkey, amongst which are their horrendous human rights record and current policy towards Kurdistan, and also their occupation of Northern Cyprus, which isn't recognised by any EU states. IIRC, the EU is also strongly opposed to capital punishment, which Turkey still has as part of its criminal judicial system. As long as President Erdoğan is in power there is no chance Turkey will join the European Union. Before he took charge Turkey was rapidly developing its economy and becoming a secular cosmopolitan society. Since Erdoğan has took charge he has ploughed money into the military and has essentially bought the votes of the poor population in the Turkish countryside by building new mosques and other facilities whilst neglecting the more Western-looking cities of Istanbul, Izmir, Antalya etc. When I have thought about it the situation in Turkey is not too dissimilar to the current shit-show in the UK. The young educated generations are wanting to be part of an inclusive universal world, whereas the older generations are longing for the good old days in misty-eyed nostalgia. Both countries are equally divided and royally buggered politically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Glenryck Pilchards said: As long as President Erdoğan is in power there is no chance Turkey will join the European Union. Before he took charge Turkey was rapidly developing its economy and becoming a secular cosmopolitan society. Since Erdoğan has took charge he has ploughed money into the military and has essentially bought the votes of the poor population in the Turkish countryside by building new mosques and other facilities whilst neglecting the more Western-looking cities of Istanbul, Izmir, Antalya etc. When I have thought about it the situation in Turkey is not too dissimilar to the current shit-show in the UK. The young educated generations are wanting to be part of an inclusive universal world, whereas the older generations are longing for the good old days in misty-eyed nostalgia. Both countries are equally divided and royally buggered politically. Thanks for that, that's very interesting. I knew Erdoğan had initially wooed the Kurds as a part of his election campaign, but didn't know he'd gone for Turkey's Qur'an Belt (for want of a better phrase). I would've thought the longing for the glory days of the Ottoman Empire would be a lot less given that it ended a lot further back than the British, but then I guess they always had the Greeks as their nemeses that they could rag on for populist support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, David said: In fairness, has there been anyone else in a position such as this? She was essentially put in this position to lose. There is literally nothing she could or can do that would allow her to leave this situation as a success. She's the captain of a ship that simply isn't fit for the water. She could have not called a general election, and had a comfortable majority to get her deal through... The Turkey thing, also the fact that they fought a war against Greece over Cyprus in the 70s. Â So Greece supporting their entry, whilst the Turks still somewhat illegally hold territory on Cyprus, is a bit of a mindfuck. Edited March 20, 2019 by Loki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Erdogan is a weird one - as mayor of Istanbul he was pretty modernising, and the country seemed to be heading towards a more pluralist and European outlook. Â As President he's been as autocratic and reactionary as it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 Just now, Loki said: She could have not called a general election, and had a comfortable majority to get her deal through... To be fair she couldn't. With the amount of MPs in the ERG she would have needed a massive majority and she didn't have that. What she could have done is not appoint David Davis as the first Brexit minister. He was completely inept and unprepared, and with claims like "This will be the easiest deal to make ever" he was obviously doomed to failure. History will not remember him kindly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Quote History will not remember him kindly. Or at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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