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Devon Malcolm

Brexit

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6 minutes ago, David said:

The thing is, those benefits weren't given to us by the EU, they were won by ordinary people over many years. And if our democratically elected government sees fit to try and remove them it's up to the people to combat that with their vote at the next election. We shouldn't be relying on some outfit in fucking Brussels to defend our human rights, that's up to us to defend at the polling station.

You're right that all the benefits listed bar the working time directive weren't won at the EU level. Perhaps those rum and cokes are impeding your critical faculties though. We have as much control over the 'outfit' in Brussels as we do over the shower of shit in Westminster. We don't elect the Queen, judges, civil servants or the House of Lords (or the WTO, NATO, Commonwealth etc. for that matter) so why would you expect to elect the Council, Commission and ECJ directly? At least European Parliament elections use a form of PR, whereas the Commons is still stuck with archaic first-past-the-post. 

I have a little bit more time for Lexiters than I do for right-wing disaster capitalist vulture Leavers because at least the former tend to have their heart in the right place. If they want the EU to be more left-wing, they should understand than instead of leaving it, they need to vote for more progressive MEPs. And if there's then still something they can't change because of the wording of EU treaties, then they should vote for left-wing parties in domestic elections and get those clauses amended. Brexit was only ever intended as a fascist coup and those on the left have a duty to oppose it and thwart it in its entirety. For me, it's as simple as that. That might sound a bit extreme, but I think everyone's lost a lot of patience with the process by now.

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47 minutes ago, bigfoote said:

If Labour had any credibility before tonight, it's all gone now. For Corbyn to order his lot to abstain from the vote on a second referendum, only to then proclaim at the dispatch box that policy is still to seek one...is just hypocrisy of the highest order.

Tories can't be trusted, Labour have no spine. Would not surprise me if the EU just turn around and go "Fuck it, you had your chance, now fuck off and deal with life outside"

Jean Claude Juncker at his next press conference...

 

Edited by PJ Power
Major post submission issues :( Apologies folks.

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16 minutes ago, Sergio Mendacious said:

Enjoy them while you can, it's going to be bin juice and brine after hard brexit.

I believe that is the second most popular cocktail in Glasgow so he'll be having them when he comes home after his EU sojourn.

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13 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I believe that is the second most popular cocktail in Glasgow so he'll be having them when he comes home after his EU sojourn.

Nah. I once ordered a JD and Coke in a Glasgow bar only to be told, “We don’t do cocktails here, pal.”

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1 hour ago, PJ Power said:

Secondly, both Labour and the Liberal Democrats have been burned by their associations with the Tories over the last few years, Labour got almost wiped out in Scotland in 2015 after the fallout of the independence referendum, while the Lib Dems suffered the same to a lesser extent but was far more hurt by being a minor coalition partner. Neither party could be blamed for wanting to work with the Tories on Brexit based on recent experience.

I don't think anyone was proposing some kind formal alliance, like the coalition or Better Together. A "Brexit Committee" that had input from all Parties. and the devolved Governments wouldn't have harmed anyone involved. Get them to come up with a plan that they all agree on THEN trigger Article 50.

It still wouldn't be great but it would've been a shit load better than the current situation, which is just fucking embarrassing. We're nearly two weeks away from leaving and we STILL don't know what we want yet!

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6 minutes ago, Your Fight Site said:

Nah. I once ordered a JD and Coke in a Glasgow bar only to be told, “We don’t do cocktails here, pal.”

clint eastwood coffee GIF

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7 hours ago, Chest Rockwell said:

I thought for sure when I first saw that it was a Cassette Boy joint. Surprised that it isn't.

It's swedemason. Dude has been killing it for years on youtube and does it for a living now (he did the MasterChef 'Buttery Biscuit Bass' remix that went viral a few years ago, but there's a goldmine of this stuff on his channel)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoUqzYqTYp9SE9RTkUYusZA

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4 hours ago, David said:

Thing is C-Bomb, this is a nasty, messy divorce. The EU aren't interested in non-damaging, orderly or humane, and rightly so. If other nations see us walk away from the EU in a pleasant, orderly fashion then why wouldn't they maybe want the same? Not every nation in the group is entirely convinced by the entity.

They aren't actively trying to cause damage to the process (certainly not as much as our own politicians are, that's for sure) but they have no interest in seeing the process go smoothly and Britain successfully walking away. In many ways this situation, regardless of how it played out, was always going to be an example to the rest.

The 'Tories have not had their problems to seek for sure, and are a shambles, but the other parties still playing politics is ridiculous as well. 

It's for this very reason that I always had doubts when people would say to me that we could effect change from within the EU. Not only is the organisation set up to actively discourage democratic change from the ground up, but our politicians aren't anywhere near capable of such a thing.

If the people charged with Governing our country, both EU and national government alike, weren't such power-hungry, careerist bastards we wouldn't be in this position.

For those of us who've been around for a few years this has always been on the cards. What we ended up with was what we actively sought out with how we vote and our priorities. It's populist politics, where personality and soundbites wins over all else. Has been for a while.

When the EU vote was announced I knew, as someone who's always argued against the EU and the road its going down from a left position, that the whole thing would be hijacked by cretins. On both sides.

It's like the US with trump, there's now no middle ground. There's two defined camps, and both sides only dig their heels in even more in the face of any type of discussion. Humanity in the UK is split into uneducated, angry, racist Brexit lowlifes and middle-class, sneer-down-their-nose types at the great unwashed who dare vote against the status quo.

In short, the whole thing is fucked. We leave the EU, one half of the nation will be pissed off and unhappy. We have a revote and the other half will be pissed off and unhappy. 

No one wins. Fuck the lot of it, it's time to burn it all to the ground and start again.

(I may or may not have had a few rum and cokes tonight 😁)

 

I see your point, but am not entirely sure how far I agree with it. The way the EU treated Greece isn't likely to be the same way they'd treat the UK, for the very simple fact that the UK is a major economy, even now. Whilst I have no time for all those fucking ERG roasters who go on about how the EU will be desperate for a deal with us because of how amazing we apparently are, from a simple, objective standpoint, the UK is still the world's 5th/6th largest economy, and potentially a powerful partner to have. I get they might want to make an example of leavers, but at the same time, the EU's a long-term project, for better or worse, and I get the impression they'll be looking at this as a temporary arrangement, during which time they'll give us our space to see other people, take some alone-time to have a think about what we want in life, and avoid pissing us off because they're entertaining the hope we'll come back and have awesome make-up sex (alright, I'm taking the analogy too far, but you get my meaning). 

Basically, I think they'll want more to avoid burning bridges because they think we're just throwing a paddy, and would try to keep us sweet so that we'd return to the fold.

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14 hours ago, jazzygeofferz said:

Ken Clarke? 

He's not bad, but his taste in trousers would prevent him holding the top spot, and it always went tits up when he tried to become the leader of the Conservatives. Pretty good record as an MP, though - pro Europe and stood up to Thatcher about the NHS when he was health secretary.

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I wonder if May is secretly wearing baby blue trunks.

Being politics, there's a lot of posturing going on here. The UK is actually a pretty strong economy, so as one poster stated earlier, the EU are going to make it as ugly as possible for us to leave, because a) they want to hold onto us, even as a gateway into other markets, and b) to put the willies up any other EU countries considering also splitting. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a shitstorm until D-Day, then suddenly deals come out of both sides to allow the stock markets to stabilise and limit damage over the next few years it'll take to uncouple.

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38 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said:

I wonder if May is secretly wearing baby blue trunks.

Being politics, there's a lot of posturing going on here. The UK is actually a pretty strong economy, so as one poster stated earlier, the EU are going to make it as ugly as possible for us to leave, because a) they want to hold onto us, even as a gateway into other markets, and b) to put the willies up any other EU countries considering also splitting. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a shitstorm until D-Day, then suddenly deals come out of both sides to allow the stock markets to stabilise and limit damage over the next few years it'll take to uncouple.

As I was saying a few posts up in response to that, I think it could be the opposite. The EU might want to be seen as reasonable and friendly, because they know that, with generational shift, we'll probably be back again in at least a couple of decades, if not sooner. They won't want to risk driving us further into the arms of the US, to become a fully-fledged member of their bloc.

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1 hour ago, CavemanLynn said:

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a shitstorm until D-Day, then suddenly deals come out of both sides to allow the stock markets to stabilise and limit damage over the next few years it'll take to uncouple.

I believe it's called the Withdrawal Agreement and Transition Period that's been agreed by the EU27 since last autumn.

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On 3/14/2019 at 7:05 PM, Fog Dude said:

We have as much control over the 'outfit' in Brussels as we do over the shower of shit in Westminster. We don't elect the Queen, judges, civil servants or the House of Lords (or the WTO, NATO, Commonwealth etc. for that matter) so why would you expect to elect the Council, Commission and ECJ directly? At least European Parliament elections use a form of PR, whereas the Commons is still stuck with archaic first-past-the-post.

Well, in that case having two layers of this shit is fine then, right? 

No, it's not. Why is it that people assume if you question the democratic nature of the EU you're automatically a Union Jack waving disciple of the British political system? I'm certainly not a fan of the system we have in the UK, but that doesn't mean I'm okay with another layer of bureaucracy simply because our own system is the shits.

Give me a referendum on binning the House of Lords and I know which way I'll be voting. Same goes for the Monarchy, get that to fuck while we're at it.

If and when we leave the EU, we absolutely should be looking at the shitshow that we've seen from our own politicians in the run up to the leaving date, and we should be holding each and every one of them accountable.

Do we need political reform in the UK to get rid of an old system that's no longer even close to being fit for purpose? Absolutely. And hopefully that's next on the agenda.

On 3/14/2019 at 11:10 PM, Carbomb said:

I see your point, but am not entirely sure how far I agree with it. The way the EU treated Greece isn't likely to be the same way they'd treat the UK, for the very simple fact that the UK is a major economy, even now.

Yeah, but that's akin to watching the bully smash fuck out of the little kid on the playground and take solace in the fact that they probably won't do the same to us because we're a bit bigger and can fight back a bit more.

On 3/14/2019 at 11:10 PM, Carbomb said:

I get they might want to make an example of leavers, but at the same time, the EU's a long-term project, for better or worse, and I get the impression they'll be looking at this as a temporary arrangement, during which time they'll give us our space to see other people, take some alone-time to have a think about what we want in life, and avoid pissing us off because they're entertaining the hope we'll come back and have awesome make-up sex (alright, I'm taking the analogy too far, but you get my meaning). 

I sincerely hope you're right, and what I really hope happens is that the EU countries, including the UK, ask themselves why there are enough people pissed off about the current system to actually make this kind of thing a reality. And the classic answer of "well, it's racists and bigots who don't like immigration" isn't an answer that's going to work in my opinion. This is a democracy apparently, and even those who don't follow the political world with the fervour that some others do are still entitled to a say.

I'm hoping that this whole carry-on, with us leaving, will eventually result in changes both at home and in Europe. 

Could it shock the EU into looking inwards and asking why it happened? Will we see less attempts to create a United States of Europe? More autonomy for members nations? I certainly hope so. In my opinion the EU should be nothing more than a facilitator for smooth trade between nations for the most part.

Has it taken this whole shitfest for the British people to realise that our current system isn't fit for purpose anymore? Will we see the eventual breakup of the traditional Labour and Conservative dominance of our political system? We can only hope. I'm not the only person out there who isn't really arsed to vote because there's no party that makes me want to actually walk to the polling station.

In an ideal world we'd see some changes at home, which would provide a new Government with a mandate to go to the EU and say "Okay, we think this is where the problem lies. If you're interested in the UK coming back into the fold we'll need to look at making a few changes to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen again in a few years."

At that point you'd hope that other EU nations with growing numbers of disillusioned citizens would follow suit and we can drag this whole load of nonsense into the modern era.

On 3/14/2019 at 7:36 PM, Keith Houchen said:

I believe that is the second most popular cocktail in Glasgow so he'll be having them when he comes home after his EU sojourn.

Just like the current situation with the UK and the EU, the EU nations I spend time in don't want me to leave either. Think they like the wedge I hand over to them in tax.

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