Keith Houchen Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I bet Ralphy would take some of the 50/50 booking in the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Mr_Danger said: I don't think United would hire Poch and not expect to give him time. He'd obviously have to make a better fist of it than Moyes bit if they were to hire him they'd know that it was as part of a longer term project. For that very reason I don't think they will though. They have tried throwing shed loads of cash at it with one of the biggest coaches in the world for too long to take a step back and change strategies. They'll just Real Madrid it until Ancelotti or whoever gets it right. It should totally be Ancelotti though, he's made eyes at Liverpool and even Spurs in recent years so must really want to work here again. United would have to change a lot for Pochetino and them to be a good fit. United have become Dinosaurs with the office side of football. Virtually their entire recruitment process involves managers saying who they fancy and the club trying to sign them. Spurs are set up briliantly for Pochetino with their technical staff and data analysis. United have none of this, still working with a boots on the ground scouting set up that nobody else does anymore. Pochetino is a smart guy and theres no way hed make a move without the surroundings being right for him and United are nowhere near that. Its why United and Mourinho are technically perfect for each other right now, they've both failed to adapt to the fundamental changes in football over the last 5 years. Giving managers time isnt really a problem for United, sure Moyes wasnt given it, but Van Gall had two full years and Mourinho will get a minimum of three, that should be plenty of time for a manager to show clear progression. LVG completely failed to do this, Mourinho has managed it to a small degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted March 21, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted March 21, 2018 Mourinho hasn't managed it at all. He's spent £300 million to be absolutely nowhere near winning the title or Champions League and to play worse football than we were playing under the previous two managers. He shouldn't be given another season. He's not going to change. He's got the players to challenge for trophies on all fronts but he's not utilising them anywhere near correctly. The club is in a shocking state on the playing side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 52 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: Mourinho hasn't managed it at all. He's spent £300 million to be absolutely nowhere near winning the title or Champions League and to play worse football than we were playing under the previous two managers. He shouldn't be given another season. He's not going to change. He's got the players to challenge for trophies on all fronts but he's not utilising them anywhere near correctly. The club is in a shocking state on the playing side. I dont think he should either, but he will, barring a disaster where they finish 5th. Whilst I think the club is a complete state with how its setup to recruit and advance as other clubs are (City, Liverpool, Spurs) the club see being 2nd to a team that will set a record points total as progression. 3 of the last 4 seasons we've been nowhere near finishing in the top 4. I dont like it, I think its going to take years for the club to change and achieve what I think it should, but I can see where they can see progression compared to what we were seeing under Moyes and then Van Gaal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted March 21, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted March 21, 2018 Interesting points you've made regarding United's recruitment policy though, and from what we've seen over the past few years it's hard to argue. There seems to be a bit of a 'buy now, worry later' mentality since SAF and David Gill split, in terms of how the players fit. Their squad has been so unbalanced for most of the past 4 seasons (I say 4 rather than 5 as Moyes' team was virtually the same as Fergie's final season). I don't think there's been a truly inspiring signing during this period. There have been some good signings, such as Matic, but he was a safe bet seeing as he did well under Jose at Chelsea and United were screaming out for a player of his calibre in that position. Bailly has looked good, but he's been plagued with injuries hasn't he? Others have either met or fell short of expectations, or destroyed by injuries. Herrera looked like he would be an excellent long-term signing, but he's fallen out of favour. I'm not even sure how to assess Martial's United career so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted March 22, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted March 22, 2018 United's recruitment has been patchy but I don't think it's been significantly worse than other teams around them. Certainly the re-signing of Pogba was a damning statement on the idiotic decision to sell him in the first place but by and large the signings have been good. It's the utilisation of that talent which is far more questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted March 22, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted March 22, 2018 7 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said: United's recruitment has been patchy but I don't think it's been significantly worse than other teams around them. Certainly the re-signing of Pogba was a damning statement on the idiotic decision to sell him in the first place but by and large the signings have been good. It's the utilisation of that talent which is far more questionable. Have to agree. There is a lot of crying about it from spoilt cunts but it's not been terrible. They went and got Bailly, Ibra, Mhihkihihtihrihrahn and Pogba in Mourinho's first season and then Lindelof, Matic and Lukaku last summer and Sanchez in January. All major targets and particularly last summer - ones the manager clearly wanted. If you're being really greedy, they could have done with a full back or two (hence Jose crying about City's) but they've spent £260m on an entire spine in two years to add to a squad that already had Martial, Rashford, Mata, Valencia, Herrera, etc. Mourinho's never been a great man manager. Players either fit his system or they don't. If they don't, he won't even try. He'll accomodate a Fellaini or Young but let a Shaw or Darmian rot. Worst was what he did to Martial last season. Under a decent coach, that kid could be anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 8 hours ago, tiger_rick said: Have to agree. There is a lot of crying about it from spoilt cunts but it's not been terrible. They went and got Bailly, Ibra, Mhihkihihtihrihrahn and Pogba in Mourinho's first season and then Lindelof, Matic and Lukaku last summer and Sanchez in January. All major targets and particularly last summer - ones the manager clearly wanted. If you're being really greedy, they could have done with a full back or two (hence Jose crying about City's) but they've spent £260m on an entire spine in two years to add to a squad that already had Martial, Rashford, Mata, Valencia, Herrera, etc. Mourinho's never been a great man manager. Players either fit his system or they don't. If they don't, he won't even try. He'll accomodate a Fellaini or Young but let a Shaw or Darmian rot. Worst was what he did to Martial last season. Under a decent coach, that kid could be anything. United never sold Pogba, he left after running his contract down and went abroad to allow him to negotiate a contract where he will be entitled to a large chunk of his future transfer fee. Hence the furore over Raoila being 'paid' so much money from his transfer from Juve to United. As far as Uniteds signings under Mourinho, im not complaining about their ability to sign the players they want, they've done that very well. Im criticising the process of just allowing a manager to name the players he wants and that being your recruitment process. Its outdated, letting a manager, or any scout for that matter, judge players by eye and deciding who to buy. Every major club uses analytics to scout players except for United. The problem they have is that they had a manager for 30 years where this worked, no technical director helping in this process, just a team of scouts and Alex watching players and getting in who they liked. This worked because Ferguson had an unrivalled ability to get the absolute best out of his players and helping them exceed their own abilities. Uniteds top office staff now are salesmen and commercial negotiators, its great at creating cash, as the owners want, but not good at structuring the football side. They need somebody to sit above the manager and a team in between that identifying players with modern processes. Nobody else works in the way United do now and it shows. Sanchez is a classic Mourinho signing and a classic example of there not being a quality control filter in the club. Hes a player in his prime who is going to cause major headaches when his decline sets in and hes hard to move on. I understand a club has to give a manager a nod and let him get the odd player that defies the standard rules about signing players already past prime age but they could argue they already did that with Ibra in year one and Matic in year 2. Although I believe they did it because they perhaps knew that Griezmann has chosen Barcelona and Bale would be no certainty to move in the summer. Couple that with the fact they can take Sanchez away from City and it seemed like a good idea, I dont think it will look like that in 18-24 months time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted March 22, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Van Dammer said: Uniteds top office staff now are salesmen and commercial negotiators, its great at creating cash, as the owners want, but not good at structuring the football side. They need somebody to sit above the manager and a team in between that identifying players with modern processes. Nobody else works in the way United do now and it shows. We do- which is one of the biggest problems at the club to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, PunkStep said: We do- which is one of the biggest problems at the club to be honest. Well, Sven Mislintat has been brought in and there is quite a large team of data analysts in place now. Admittedly they haven't been there long, but its in place now and I believe they're still actively recruiting data analysts as a priority, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted March 22, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, PunkStep said: We do- which is one of the biggest problems at the club to be honest. To be fair, Spurs spent nearly two decades trying to get this model for player recruitment and coaching right. It got us in such a pickle that one year that we turfed the whole system out for Harry Redknapp and his old-school player recruitment "methods." We seem to have finally got things right with Poch and his team, and those above and around them at the club, but it wasn't smooth sailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted March 22, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Van Dammer said: Well, Sven Mislintat has been brought in and there is quite a large team of data analysts in place now. Admittedly they haven't been there long, but its in place now and I believe they're still actively recruiting data analysts as a priority, He's head of recruitment and has effectively replaced Steve Rowley, but yes we've seemingly addressed the problem recently by appointing former Barca sporting director Rahul Sanllehi- that's certainly the more eyebrow-raising appointment of the two. As for the analytics (we spent shitloads buying out StatDNA), unsurprisingly Wenger isn't a fan of it anymore apparently. It led to the likes of Xhaka, Mustafi and Perez joining and rumour has it he wasn't entirely on board with those signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briefcase Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 The biggest thing for me about United is lack of identity. Of all the top six teams (maybe throw the current Arsenal in there) they look like they have signed a bunch of quality players without a system/style to play them in. City/Liverpool/Spurs have a way of playing and the players fit that profile (style/balance). Chelsea do as well when they fancy it. You look at United and just see big named players but no real way of playing. I'm not sure if thats because they have a mixed bag of quality players that don't jel together or whether its the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted March 22, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted March 22, 2018 Sad to see Zlatan leave, but he really looked off the pace when he returned from that injury. Would have been sad to see him as a bit part player in this side. United should have signed him with some of the Ronaldo money in 2009, when Zlatan was on the move. Would have been a full one legend at United. Ferguson would have loved him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members I Bent My Wookie Posted March 23, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted March 23, 2018 And him going to the MLS makes me staying up late watching football that much more enjoyable too. Absolute steal by Galaxy to not get him as a designated player because of allocation money too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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