Would someone else have made wrestling what it is if vince hadn't?

[no user name]

I talking to someone about this the other day. From what I understand Vince Mcmahon was the person who had the idea to turn wrestling into a massive thing. Eventually buying a lot of the original territories if my understanding is right. I think Ted Turner did a similar thing but was inspired by Vince. 

Do you think if he hadn't done it someone else would of? Or do you think wrestling would of stayed the way it was? I think somebody else would of done it eventually. If there is a market for something, generally someone will take advantage of it.

 

[Your Fight Site]

18 minutes ago, no user name said:

I think somebody else would of done it eventually. If there is a market for something, generally someone will take advantage of it.

Pretty much this.

Good thread.

[no user name]

1 minute ago, Your Fight Site said:

Pretty much this.

Good thread.

Probably the end of it as well. 

[Tamura]

Wrestling already was popular. While certain territories were on their way out, in 1983 wrestling was in a pretty healthy state. Mid-Atlantic was doing great, as was Georgia, Florida, Mid-South, Memphis, World Class, the AWA, Portland and numerous others. More people were paying to see pro-wrestling than they are today, and more people were earning a full-time living from it. I recommend reading "The truth about smoke-filled halls" (post just before half-way down) by @JNLister which summarises the state of wrestling before and after McMahon. 

[no user name]

17 minutes ago, Tamura said:

Wrestling already was popular. While certain territories were on their way out, in 1983 wrestling was in a pretty healthy state. Mid-Atlantic was doing great, as was Georgia, Florida, Mid-South, Memphis, World Class, the AWA, Portland and numerous others. More people were paying to see pro-wrestling than they are today, and more people were earning a full-time living from it. I recommend reading "The truth about smoke-filled halls" (post just before half-way down) by @JNLister which summarises the state of wrestling before and after McMahon. 

Ow yeah I know. I just meant would someone of bought up all the territories like vince did and create a giant megapower in wrestling.

Because a lot of wrestlers out of wwe still work on the independent scene you can still get some great matches on it. I saw dani luna the other day she had one of the best women's matches i have seen. So even despite the best ones all being in a small amount of companies you can still get great wrestling on the independent scene 

Edited April 12 by no user name

[garynysmon]

If you added up how many people were watching live shows in the USA and wrestling for a living in 1980 compared to 1990, both figures would show a significant drop.

Edited April 12 by garynysmon

[westlondonmist]

Weren't JCP and AWA both expanding heavily in the 70s and 80s? Starrcade pre-dates Wrestlemania and I think that was JCP starting their aim of national rather than just being a larger regional, but they had been growing massively pre Starrcade. JCP pretty much took over the other NWA promotions. It was happening anyway, at the same time, so I don't think it was even light years ahead of it's time. 

[air_raid]

The AWA could, and very nearly did, shoot off into the lead with exactly the same method - putting the title on Hulk Hogan and never looking back, brother.

[Infinity Land]

WWF would still have existed even if Vince never took over. Its an unknown quite what they would have looked like under someone else

With the way cable tv and what we think of as PPVs were developing during the '80s, companies would have been going national. Still shakes out largely the same.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I think there is something in the idea that Vince and his approach to business and search for a monopoly, combined with the emergence of Hulk Hogan (with his incredible connection with audiences) being a unique, once in a generation mix that allowed wrestling to grow into what we know now.

I think without that, wrestling either develops into something completely different to what we see now or has to wait much longer to catch on.

I don't think there's a chance it doesn't exist though.

[air_raid]

12 hours ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

I think there is something in the idea that Vince and his approach to business and search for a monopoly, combined with the emergence of Hulk Hogan (with his incredible connection with audiences) being a unique, once in a generation mix that allowed wrestling to grow into what we know now.

It was a perfect storm. Hogan catching on like he did in the North East strongholds was a factor, getting to swipe the AWAs best non wrestlers to improve their overall presentation was a factor, getting MTV, Mr T and Cyndi Lauper involved was impossible to overstate as a factor, and of course getting a gigantic audience to be able to view WrestleMania on CCTV when cards of that magnitude usually were only seen by people who bought a ticket. I think Crockett would have got there eventually but maybe not as quickly - WrestleMania was watched by an estimated 1 million viewers at CCTV venues where as only 30,000 or so braved the inclement weather in the South to watch Starrcade 83.

I think not enough credit goes to Mania II and III to really pushing them on as THE players in traditional home PPV in wrestling ; it’s easy to overlook that “The Wrestling Classic” - the first of five planned “WrestleVision” PPVs - flopped on PPV (probably because Hogan vs Piper for the belt was only announced two weeks prior) causing the rest to get cancelled, and Mania II essentially saved PPV as a big platform for the WWF as the first Mania on PPV by drumming up big interest in three of their biggest markets, getting celebrities back in, heavily promoting the main events and putting $5 million in the chest. Mania III is obviously remembered for two iconic matches, a passing of the torch from Andre to Hogan in front of the world, and a huge live gate. But the timing often gets overlooked - it was a cracking bit of “strike while the irons hot” after Mania II and was such a massive success that by the time JCP did their first proper PPV, StarrCade 87, they were already playing catch up.

The WWF and Crockett had the same ideas, the WWF just did them better, on occasion quicker, and they had Thunderlips and Clubber Lang. And how fitting is it that with those two personalities did Jr take it further than Sr ever would have dared to.

Edited April 13 by air_raid
Every fight out of control…

[IronSheik]

Wrestling would have 100% gone national, the same way every successful regional territory franchise model has gone national and international over the past 40 years. 

It's happened in transport logistics, fast food, restaurants, car retailers, supermarkets to name a few. Biggest cat in the region buys up smaller businesses to grow their customer base, expertise, footfall and revenues. 

[JNLister]

FWIW, Terry and Dory Funk sold the Amarillo territory in 1980 because they'd figured out cable TV would mean somebody went national and there'd be no room for local promotions.

[Merzbow]

Didn't Terry predict a few things like that long before they really came to fruition?

[Donald J Trump]

I like the premise of the question in asking would it be what it is today, and it's worth thinking about exactly what it is today. 

To start with, Wrestling has survived and I don't think that's something that can ever be taken for granted. Some form of Wrestling will always exist somewhere, but there's no reason why it can't become an exceptionally niche type of entertainment or art form with significantly less appeal than it has now. Thinking back to the early 80s, there's definitely a sense that people were aware there was a wave coming that was going to change the business one way or another. I don't think Vince McMahon was that wave, he was just the only one that was really able to successfully ride it, and it would have happened with him or without him. Clearly, one person having success nationally made it inevitable that others would fail, but I'll always believe there was room for at least two big promotions. 

We'll never know if someone else would have filled that void had Vince not been there. I think Wrestling would have endured, and that one promotion would have ultimately emerged as the top dog, but would it be what it is? Youve essentially got a monopoly that's become an institution, and is to Wrestling what MLB is to baseball. I think it's hard to get from a point where everybody except Vince got left behind, to a place where one of those that got left behind would have been successful to the degree that WWE is. The same qualities and instincts that have ensured WWEs survival throughout decades of change and upheaval are the instincts and qualities that have pushed it to where it is now. If individuals were unable to survive, I don't think there's much evidence to suggest they'd have been able to thrive in the landscape of the past 40 years.