The General Politics Thread v2.0 (AKA the "Labour are Cunts" thread)

[SuperBacon]

I've seen a lot of that on Twitter, but not anything in the actual press, but then I suppose I don't go seeking it out.

Any examples @d-d-d-dAz

[Keith Houchen]

1 minute ago, tiger_rick said:

Same as Miliband and the bacon sandwich

And how his dad was a Marxist, Britain hating Jew. But yeah all I’ve seen about Starmer and Savile is pricks on social media and not an actual media outlet making that claim. 

[BomberPat]

the Mail Online definitely tried to milk that allegation as much as they could - a quick search gives me the following headlines;

29 July 2023 - Jimmy Savile victims turn their anger on Sir Keir Starmer over CPS failure to prosecute the serial paedophile

3 February 2022 - What is the TRUTH behind PM's Jimmy Savile 'smear' on Keir Starmer? The facts and fiction after Boris Johnson accused the Labour leader of failing to prosecute notorious paedophile when he was DPP

1 February 2022 - ANDREW PIERCE: Boris Johnson is right. Keir Starmer's CPS did fail to prosecute Jimmy Savile. So why all the faux outrage?

2 February 2022 - 'As far as I'm aware it's fairly accurate': Boris refuses AGAIN to back down over claims Sir Keir Starmer 'prosecuted journalists not Jimmy Savile' when in charge of the CPS

There's more reporting on Johnson alluding to the claims in the Commons, too. Now, I'm sure all of them have "there's no evidence Starmer was personally involved" buried in the middle of the article, but the Mail were clearly happy to try and get Starmer and Savile's names to share headlines as much as they could get away with. 

[tiger_rick]

Just now, Keith Houchen said:

And how his dad was a Marxist, Britain hating Jew. 

Good memory. I'd forgotten that one. Not sure how much that mud would have stuck considering people thought his brother may have won at the time? 

[Keith Houchen]

3 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Good memory. I'd forgotten that one. Not sure how much that mud would have stuck considering people thought his brother may have won at the time? 

Different brother same dad though. There was a pernicious antisemitism levelled at the Milibands. I suppose it was nice how the press wised up to it and became champions of combating antisemitism for a few years at least. They don’t mention it these days so I’m assuming Sir Kier has eradicated it. 
 

EDIT @BomberPat That’s kind of the point I was making. They all clarified he had nothing to do with it and didn’t say he enabled and prolonged it. It was Johnson who kept bringing it up and it kept being refuted in the press. Albeit not full throated but refuted nonetheless. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Keith Houchen

[BomberPat]

2 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Good memory. I'd forgotten that one. Not sure how much that mud would have stuck considering people thought his brother may have won at the time? 

I remember chatting to a mate at the time, whose Mum is a very right-wing Christian Tory, and how appalled she always was by the Milibands, because she bought into all the "their dad hated this country", and "Red Ed" stuff, and he'd always say that it was people like her that those stories were designed to rile up - other than weirdo young Tories, generations who don't remember the Cold War don't really give a fuck about "Red" as a criticism, and literally nobody outside of Socialist academic circles gives a shit about Ralph Miliband, or buys into the "sins of the father" stuff.

And obviously the bacon sandwich stuff was always the kind of thinly veiled antisemitism that those same right-wing 'papers would pretend to be very seriously against a few years later. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

9 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

I've seen a lot of that on Twitter, but not anything in the actual press, but then I suppose I don't go seeking it out.

Any examples @d-d-d-dAz

Yeah…

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12352237/amp/Jimmy-Savile-victims-turn-anger-Sir-Keir-Starmer-CPS-failure-prosecute-serial-paedophile.html
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11974609/amp/After-Labours-dishonest-ads-case-files-prove-Starmer-dock.html
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10465933/amp/ANDREW-PIERCE-Keir-Starmers-CPS-did-fail-prosecute-Jimmy-Savile-faux-outrage.html
 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/16/starmer-must-account-for-his-tenure-as-director-of-public-p/
 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2023/04/11/labours-hypocrisy-is-breathtaking/
 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/17/cps-keir-starmer-failed-on-jimmy-savile-emily-thornberry/
 

Like, I’m not defending Starmer, but the idea he’s been protected by the right wing press isn’t right either. They probably like him more than Jeremy Corbyn, for sure, but I’d say he’s had a similar share of criticism and euphemistic insinuations to other ‘normal’ Labour leaders.

I’m no huge Starmer fan, but he’s just a normal broadly centrist Labour politician, as the party resets itself after the Corbyn years. He’s no more evil than Miliband (either), or Brown or Blair or whoever else. He’s just an administrator who doesn’t hate poor people as much as the Tories do. In a straight choice between him and the Tories, which the election will be, I’ll pick him - but he doesn’t inspire me 

[SuperBacon]

Thanks, and I wasn't trying to "gotcha", I just hadn't seen any of it outside of the usual Twitter bollocks.

Edit: the Bacon sandwich thing is infuriating. Elite food, elite surname.

Edited November 1, 2023 by SuperBacon
Bacon

[tiger_rick]

17 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

They don’t mention it these days so I’m assuming Sir Kier has eradicated it. 

Everyone knows JC was the big antisemite and it all disappeared when he went. New new Labour, init.

[Keith Houchen]

8 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Like, I’m not defending Starmer, but the idea he’s been protected by the right wing press isn’t right either

I never said he’s protected by the right wing media, I said he had an easy ride compared to all labour leaders since Blair. 
 

I can’t read the telegraph articles but of the others, not one says he enabled and prolonged Savile. They highlight multiple failings under his watch but stress he wasn’t responsible for Savile and indeed went to lengths to apologise and rectify systemic failings. 
 

I too am no fan of him but I’ll defend anyone accused wrongfully of something and credit them when it’s due. 

[Loki]

36 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I said he had an easy ride compared to all labour leaders since Blair

Circular logic here, in fairness, Keef.  He's had an easier ride because he's smarter at avoiding the gotchas and obvious traps laid for him, has put a lot of effort into detoxifying his party, and doesn't get on platforms next to 20 ft tall effigies of Jews or call Hamas leaders "friends" or repeat Russian disinformation in Parliament after a terror attack on British soil. Or sound like an automaton or fuck up eating a sandwich like poor Milliband did.

He gets an easier ride because as @tiger_rick says he's not daft.  If they could land those sort of punches, they would but for many of the reasons you dislike him, they can't.  Look at the fuss they made about the curry, that was headline news in the Tory press for days.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Loki

[SuperBacon]

7 minutes ago, Loki said:

Look at the fuss they made about the curry, that was headline news in the Tory press for days.

What's this?

[Keith Houchen]

10 minutes ago, Loki said:

and doesn't get on platforms next to 20 ft tall effigies of Jews

Corbyn didn’t do this if it’s the effigy I’m thinking of. That was of a Muslim. 
 

 

10 minutes ago, Loki said:

call Hamas leaders "friends"

And we both know why he did that (to get them into the room and for diplomacy) and that he has expressed his regret for his choice of words

10 minutes ago, Loki said:

repeat Russian disinformation in Parliament after a terror attack on British soil. 

Didn’t he say we needed to establish all of the facts before saying it was a terror attack? Something very similar the current leader said yesterday and is being lauded as a sensible approach?

Starmer is a liar and had his demonstrable lies been said by one of his predecessors, we’d have seen them getting dragged for them. 
 

As I said earlier, Starmers doing the right thing by letting the tories fight like rats in a sack. Sit back and let them get the press attention so your own failings don’t get called out.  
 

EDIT - @SuperBacon Starmer was pictured having a beer and a curry at a labour work event. It was all within the lockdown guidelines at  the time and was used as whataboutery during partygate, which had different rules at the time. At PMQs, Johnson tried to get “Sir Beer Korma” over and thankfully it didn’t catch on

 

None of this of course changes or challenges my opinion that Starmer has had the easiest ride of any labour leader since Blair. If you honestly think Brown, Miliband and Corbyn had it easier than him, then I doubt I will change anyone’s mind. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Keith Houchen

[SuperBacon]

6 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

EDIT - @SuperBacon Starmer was pictured having a beer and a curry at a labour work event. It was all within the lockdown guidelines at  the time and was used as whataboutery during partygate, which had different rules at the time. At PMQs, Johnson tried to get “Sir Beer Korma” over and thankfully it didn’t catch on

I had forgot all about that! Mind you, Kier would find a Korma a "bit too spicy" let's be honest.

Anyway, for all his faults there is one defining characteristic for me that defines him. His gutlessness? His flip flopping on policies? His inability to call a war crime a war crime? 

Nope. 

Cunt.

[Keith Houchen]

And to be fair, I’m sure the press WILL ramp up against Starmer come the election cycle. Well, at least the ones he wasn’t able to schmooze enough to their liking.