Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 6, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Keith Houchen said: Hypothetical time. Had the tories not lurched further to the right and UKIP carried on with their increase in votes, they’d have been a likely opposition party. Would you have voted for them to get the tories out? I don't think UKIP were ever likely to become any sort of opposition choice but to answer the question - No, I consider a party that is solely racist and bigoted worse than a party of cruel bastards, some of whom are racists and bigots. But it's a close run thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 17 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: I don't think UKIP were ever likely to become any sort of opposition choice  They got 12% of the vote in 2015, had the referendum been dropped as a coalition concession as planned, and the tories forced to occupy UKIP ground, I believe they would’ve. But it’s all hypothetical.  My point was more regarding getting the tories out as a priority. Generally when people say it, there is a line they won’t cross. They’ll accept a more moderate conservatism over something resembling radical change and that’s to be expected.  Starmers tactic send to be doing nothing and let the tories destroy themselves without interference, and it’s the best tactic. He is essentially saying “I’m not Johnson, Truss, or Sunak. I’m not Corbyn either” without having to do any work so we can all get back to how life was under the tories before.  He hasn’t faced any hostile media yet, and it’ll be interesting to see what happens when they do. When he’s asked about supporting Corbyn, or his lies, or how close paedo friend Mandelson is, he’ll flounder like the rest of his front bench have already. But of course, it won’t mean shit to most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 6, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: My point was more regarding getting the tories out as a priority. Generally when people say it, there is a line they won’t cross. Yeah, but that's fairly obvious I'd say. I wouldn't vote BNP, UKIP or the albino kid from Lewis. I'd see any of the other parties as preferable to the Tories. It is sad that they're the choices but given they are, that's what we have to work with. It's OK being an idealist, but that gets us nowhere. I would rather Corbyn had won in 2017. It was a good campaign and he had my vote. I'm not going to bang on about it for the next 20 years though. 5 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Starmers tactic send to be doing nothing and let the tories destroy themselves without interference, and it’s the best tactic. Agreed, great tactic. I don't think Starmer will have groundbreaking policies or be what the proper left want. I think Labour will be a ruling party that puts the people at the bottom ahead of the people at the top and that will always be where my interest lies. No matter how much better off I might be personally under the Tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 10 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: Yeah, but that's fairly obvious I'd say. I wouldn't vote BNP, UKIP or the albino kid from Lewis. I'd see any of the other parties as preferable to the Tories. Yeah, I just see it as a bit disingenuous when people say the priority is GTTO, it isn’t. It’s replace them with something I find palatable.   12 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: I think Labour will be a ruling party that puts the people at the bottom ahead of the people at the top Yeah I don’t share that. They’ve done nothing to show any intention of that. The way they (Well, that Luke Akehurst bollocks and his ilk) brag about how big business are cutting donations to tories and donating to Labour instead show who their priorities lie with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 6, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Yeah I don’t share that. They’ve done nothing to show any intention of that. The way they (Well, that Luke Akehurst bollocks and his ilk) brag about how big business are cutting donations to tories and donating to Labour instead show who their priorities lie with. That's always going to happen. They're not stupid. The money has to come from somewhere. People have still got to invest in the country. The difference will be that the money funds spending on services, health, benefits and helping the most vulnerable. Not on making up the shortfall on tax avoidance and making your mates a couple of billion. They're the principles of Labour. Even New Labour. This all feels very New Labour. That wasn't for everyone either, particularly the most left but it was alright by me. I'm well aware we won't agree here. That's alright. Edited October 6, 2023 by tiger_rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 minute ago, tiger_rick said: That's always going to happen. They're not stupid. The money has to come from somewhere. People have still got to invest in the country. The difference will be that the money funds spending on services, health, benefits and helping the most vulnerable. Not on making up the shortfall on tax avoidance and making your mates a couple of billion. They're the principles of Labour. Even New Labour. This all feels very New Labour. That wasn't for everyone either, particularly the most left but it was alright by me. I don’t share your optimism. Look at how in bed Wes Streeting is with private healthcare for instance. That’s who Starmers Labour are courting. As I said, they’re 90s tories at this stage. A more palatable conservative.  The principles of the Labour Party were initially to give the working class and trade unions a voice and represent their interests against exploitation. Now it’s get power at all costs for us, even by being conservatives.  Fuck them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ronnie Posted October 6, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 6, 2023 27 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: It’s replace them with something I find palatable. Less unpalatable is perhaps more appropriate for most people. That's certainly my position. I wish my preferred Green or LD vote meant something but it doesn't. The only tool I have at my disposal to try to remove the post-truth charlatans is to try to oust our Blue with a Red. At least Labour won't be so keen to see children starve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ronnie said: I wish my preferred Green or LD vote meant something but it doesn't Wishful thinking I know but that’s what got us here in the first place, people not voting for who they believe in the most.  “Yeah this guys sound but round here it’s either vote for a massive cunt or a not so massive cunt”. Either way, you’re voting for a cunt however it’s sugarcoated.  I really hope I’m wrong about Starmers labour. Nothing would bring me as much happiness. I’m wrong on a lot of stuff to be fair and I really hope this is one of those times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ronnie Posted October 6, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Keith Houchen said: Wishful thinking I know but that’s what got us here in the first place, people not voting for who they believe in the most.  “Yeah this guys sound but round here it’s either vote for a massive cunt or a not so massive cunt”. Either way, you’re voting for a cunt however it’s sugarcoated. I voted as I wanted to from 1997 until 2017, when reducing the majority of a Tory government beholden to a far-right faction within it became the most important issue for me. Needless to say, my vote has never counted, whether I've voted as I would do if I were the deciding figure at the ballot box, or held my nose and attempted to be a tactician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ronnie said: I voted as I wanted to from 1997 until 2017, when reducing the majority of a Tory government beholden to a far-right faction within it became the most important issue for me. Needless to say, my vote has never counted, whether I've voted as I would do if I were the deciding figure at the ballot box, or held my nose and attempted to be a tactician. Yeah as I said earlier, my MP has a nearly 30k majority so he isn’t going anywhere soon. It’s good when people actually vote on what matters to them most and who can help achieve that. That however can range from who will support the most vulnerable to who will get rid of the immigrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 I know in this system it feels like it doesn't matter, but as I always say to my ex (who is really apolitical) your vote matters to YOU. Same as a protest. I know a few on here boycotted the World Cup and lots of people said "it won't make a difference" Well it did to the people boycotting. And that's the importance for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 hour ago, SuperBacon said: I know a few on here boycotted the World Cup and lots of people said "it won't make a difference" How do you think I felt! I look like Juan Pablo Sorin, worship El Diego and have a selection of Boca and Argentina shirts. And they won the fucking thing? My struggle was on a par with those slave labourers who died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 25 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: How do you think I felt! I look like Juan Pablo Sorin, worship El Diego and have a selection of Boca and Argentina shirts. And they won the fucking thing? My struggle was on a par with those slave labourers who died. At least the right team won brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted October 7, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 7, 2023 There's a Frankie Boyle line that I keep thinking of: “Nothing can stop Labour from winning the next general election. And that nothing is Keir Starmer.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted October 7, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 7, 2023 We've got one coming up for our MP after he went feeling up people and I'm assuming it's just because he's been in the news but we've got them all come out this time, Monster raving looney, BF, UKIP, Reform UK. All the nutters have been shipped in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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