AEW Backstage Assault

[Tsurutagun]

21 minutes ago, David said:

How are the two even comparable?

We're in an era of people believing misinformation no matter how easily it can be proved it was inaccurate. 

That's my point

[David]

9 minutes ago, Tsurutagun said:

We're in an era of people believing misinformation no matter how easily it can be proved it was inaccurate. 

That's my point

You can easily prove Punks dog wasn't hit by a door and that he's talking bollocks?

[DavidB6937]

11 minutes ago, David said:

Just to the point where it looks, from the outside at least, like he knows what he's doing.

The company has existed for a number of years now. Put on however many successful PPVs. Signed a shit ton of high profile names. TV deals. Video game deals.

I think he *might* have a teeny tiny clue about what he's doing.

[Keith Houchen]

6 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

The company has existed for a number of years now. Put on however many successful PPVs. Signed a shit ton of high profile names. TV deals. Video game deals.

I think he *might* have a teeny tiny clue about what he's doing.

So did Dixie Carter. When you’ve got the money and it’s a plaything, anything looks like a success. 

[LaGoosh]

5 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

The company has existed for a number of years now. Put on however many successful PPVs. Signed a shit ton of high profile names. TV deals. Video game deals.

I think he *might* have a teeny tiny clue about what he's doing.

Ha, this is what I always think when people bang the "rich boy playing with his toys" drum. Regardless of whether you enjoy AEW or not or you don't personally like the man - AEW has been very successful and will likely continue to be very successful and as the CEO the credit for that has to go to Tony Khan. If you think he's a clueless idiot because some of the wrestlers are being immature dickheads and fighting over stupid shit (something wrestlers have done and will always do in every promotion ever) or because he posts dumb shit on twitter and completely ignoring that his company is most likely about to receive a major new TV rights deal from one of the biggest media companies on the planet well then I don't know what to tell you.

[RedRooster]

37 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I think people are dismissing it because reports from Punk's camp weeks ago backtracked and said that their actually wasn't any doors being kicked open. Also a bit convenient that after publicly challenging them to a fight at a press conference oh no wait actually the Bucks hurt his dog and instigated him into a fight and it was all their fault poor CM Punk the victim once again. Why would Punk's camp leak this key info to the press now rather than at the time? I'm sure it has nothing to do with The Elite returning to TV, oh no absolutely not.

I'm not sure that matters. I don't see why Punk would make this up. While he does have a track record of being someone who feels aggrieved quite easily, it tends to be real world events that set him off. It's not like dogs don't have a habit of rushing up to a door when someone is coming, excited to see who is coming to say hello. It feels entirely plausible that they barged through the door, and it struck Larry. A complete accident, obviously - but I'm sure Punk wouldn't have seen it this way. 

1 hour ago, Louch said:

The reason why was in the quote you made. Either they lied at the start, or they are lying now. Or it’s some random side character saying he’s on Punks side with a made up “oh I heard” story. That the bucks took HR and Talent relations with them doesn’t in any way suggest they were booting doors. Claiming so after the fact is an attempt to try and make a “poor me” narrative for a guy who was clearly acting on anger from press conference on 

Why does someone have to be lying? I think people are getting a little too hung up on the phrasing used around how the door was opened. Ultimately, the EVPs of the company going after an employee is more than enough ammo for Punk to use; making up a story about his dog accidentally being struck seems pretty pointless. 

[mim731]

58 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

How many years does Tony Khan have to run a successful wrestling promotion before "he doesn't know anything about the wrestling business" ceases to be a talking point? 

There's probably an argument to be made it's never been about how much Khan knows about the wrestling business. It's the perception of Tony Khan as a "money mark" or "trying to be one of the boys" that people conflate into him not knowing about the industry, despite him being legitimately pretty successful as a promoter at this stage.

Whether the former issue is a problem, depends on your perspective I suppose. 

[LaGoosh]

26 minutes ago, mim731 said:

There's probably an argument to be made it's never been about how much Khan knows about the wrestling business. It's the perception of Tony Khan as a "money mark" or "trying to be one of the boys" that people conflate into him not knowing about the industry, despite him being legitimately pretty successful as a promoter at this stage.

Whether the former issue is a problem, depends on your perspective I suppose. 

Khan being a money mark has never been a legitimate criticism for me. How else would anyone open or run a major wrestling promotion in today's day and age without either being a money mark or being back by one? Everyone seems to be forgetting that even Vince McMahon's dad ran the WWF before him. The fact is that if Tony Khan was useless at running a wrestling promotion AEW would be dead by now regardless of how much of his Dad's money is behind it.

1 hour ago, Keith Houchen said:

So did Dixie Carter. When you’ve got the money and it’s a plaything, anything looks like a success.

That's a pretty big push and bad faith argument. How exactly would you judge what success for AEW and Tony Khan looks like? At what point would you say it's no longer a plaything and an actual business? Though I suppose you'd actually have to watch the shows to find out.

Edited October 27, 2022 by LaGoosh

[Infinity Land]

13 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

Everyone seems to be forgetting that even Vince McMahon's dad ran the WWF before him.

Vince is a self-made man's man. None of this nepostism pish or wanting to be a wrestler and one of the boys for him.

[Keith Houchen]

9 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

That's a pretty big push and bad faith argument

It’s not. In my opinion, the marker of a successful business is how much money it makes. AEW turns a profit so therefore it’s a successful business

11 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

At what point would you say it's no longer a plaything and an actual business

I don’t think anyone can claim it’s not an actual business because it’s a registered company that employs people and produces a product. What makes it a plaything is that it’s a product of passion financed by other business interests via his dad. It’s a bit like Roman Abramovich owning Chelsea. Brought the club success and riches but was ran awfully from an employer perspective. 
 

 

16 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

Though I suppose you'd actually have to watch the shows to find out.

I’ve never watched Strictly Come Dancing but I know it’s a successful TV show. You don’t have to watch wrestling to know WWE are the most successful company in history. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. You don’t need to watch something or consume their content to know if a company is “An actual business”

[LaGoosh]

24 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make

You said that anything looks like a success when it's got money behind it. So I wanted you to clarify what you think real success looks like.

Edited October 27, 2022 by LaGoosh

[Loki]

TNA was a success under Dixie Carter by most metrics - it ran for many years, negotiated some great TV deals, videogame, overseas tours, it turned a profit after a few years as well.  And yet it constantly got lolTNA thrown at it.  Looking back, there was probably quite an element of sexism surrounding Dixie Carter - anyone who met her even briefly at a show would have been impressed by her.

Khan has managed to get a pass on all that criticism.  And he also has achieved measurable success, in a shorter timeframe too!  But I think he's past the honeymoon period now and situations like this Punk one will make or break his reputation as a "real" promoter.  Considering he presumably had the same experience going in as the rest of us, i.e he used to play EWR, he's done a great job imo.

[69MeDon]

Has the term "money mark" lost all meaning? It used to be applied to, for example, some dude spending all his cash on bringing in "big names" for a show or two, with no long term plan to really generate revenue that would actually pay for these big names. Now it's being applied to Tony Khan, the man with the now second biggest wrestling promotion in the world, with TV shows on TNT and TBS? Nah. I wouldn't have applied the term "money mark" to Dixie, either.

Also: I don't for one second believe this Larry story.

Edited October 27, 2022 by 69MeDon

[Keith Houchen]

3 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

You said that anything looks like a success when it's got money behind it. So I wanted you to clarify what you think real success looks like.

In wrestling, I’d say being on the telly. In business, I’d say turning a profit. AEW tick both boxes. You don’t need to watch it to determine it, I I was confused by you saying you’d need to watch it to find out. 
 

This all seems to have stemmed from using the word “Disaster” to describe the calamitous structure of the company, and the running of the company, not the product the company produces. I hope I’ve clarified what that meant to me. 

[RedRooster]

4 minutes ago, 69MeDon said:

Also: I don't for one second believe this Larry story.

If someone can point me to examples of Punk routinely being dishonest, I'd be more open to the idea that he'd be making this up; but as far as I can tell people are skewed by the fact they don't particularly like Punk. 

This can still be true, and Punk can still be the arsehole in this situation. He trashed his colleagues unprovoked during a press conference, that's a dick move by anyone's standards. The fact his dog was injured in an accident doesn't change that. 

When Punk left WWE, he vented his grievances on a podcast, and when that ended up in a court room, Punk won - with evidence seeming to back up his claims.