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tiger_rick

Pipe bombs

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CM Punk's "pipe bomb" promo was 9 years ago today. I wasn't watching much at the time and only saw it afterwards. A really good promo that contained enough material to convince people it was something out of the ordinary. Well delivered and well directed and hitting enough points before they "cut the mic". When I watch it back, it doesn't hold up as well, I don't think. It just doesn't seem as controversial or scathing. It's still good but I think Punk himself cut better promos that summer.

Paul Heyman cut a far superior "shoot" promo in 2001 when they got desperate enough to sell Survivor Series. That one does still hold up, I think. Something about Heyman's delivery and the subject being more about Vince and the WWF overall than Heyman himself. That one is still great.

Not just a thread about shooty stuff. Just a general chat about promos. What are your favs? What do you think about the Pipe Bomb? Is it up there?

Some of my favourites are quite short. Most are probably in that thread in gold where we shared promo transcripts (the days before YouTube, kids) Dusty Rhodes impassioned "Sapphire took the money. That' fiiiiiiine" promo at SummerSlam 1990 that channels Bob Dylan is great. Ric Flair's legendary babyface promo after winning the Royal Rumble 1992 made me a massive fan unlike anything he did before or after in the WWF. Dusty Rhode's famous Hard times promos and a lot of his other ones are quite short too. Same for some of Jake Robert's classics like the one before he faced Dibiase at Mania 6.

I'm a big fan of that period from 96-2000 where there were so many promos that had an element of real life in them but weren't over the heads of casual fans, which was a good job because I knew fuck all about the inner workings. Don't get me wrong, there were far more that were shit than good but the good really stands out. Bret Hart's promos on the Raws after Royal Rumble and WrestleMania that year are incredible. Ric Flair returning to WCW in 1998. Hogan's turn at Bash at the Beach. Some really gritty stuff that stands up really well.

More "modern" stuff is harder to remember. I'm a huge fan of Hollywood Rock's stuff from 2003 and Eddie G's big promos in 2004 before No Way Out. After that, a lot of stuff gets lost in my memory. I'll credit Punk there. The Pipe Bomb and that promo with Vince stand out like not much else does from the last 15 years. Mark Henry's brilliant fake retirement, The Rock's big return in 2010 (?), Cena's fantastic retort, Becky Lynch choosing Rondy Rousey after Rumble a couple of years ago. They're rare instances that I recall vividly too.

I like good promos a million times more than I like good matches. I always did.

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The Pipebomb holds a special place in my heart. After a few years of being a bit disillusioned with WWE, missing much of it, reading results here and there - it got me back into it, and got me back into it in a big way. I loved Punk at the time, the match delivered and then the summer of punk with his exchanges with Vinny Mac were gold. Then out of the blue it just turned sour.

Cena has had a load of promos that were good. Him and Rock exchanges were great. I remember his one with Roman a year or 2 ago where he nailed it.

Bray Wyatt had that one promo where he changed the pace incredibly well to drown out the whats. Cody has done a few recently. and i recall AJ styles beat up John Cena being great too.

On the topic of Shoot i'll pick 2 from TNA - AJ styles being the go to guy (which was contradictory throughout) and then Samoa Joe gave a passion filled one when Scott Hall was unable to perform. 

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29 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

I like good promos a million times more than I like good matches. I always did.

Aye. A million times this.

This is out and out, my favourite promo of all time. Just watching wholesome, born again Michaels effortlessly swing between 1997 HBK and his born again persona was - and still is - an absolute joy to the senses.
Just an absolute masterclass...

 

Edited by Scott Malbranque
Plurii

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I think an argument could be made for the "Pipebomb" being responsible for a lot of ills in modern wrestling, in terms of how wrestling engages with its audience, and what the audiences expectations are. It, along with the Daniel Bryan Wrestlemania 30 storyline, certainly played a part in creating an environment where whoever WWE anoints as the top star was rejected as a matter of course (though, yes, Cena had been getting booed for years prior). 

It also popularised referring to "controversial" promos as "pipebombs", which I fucking hate.

 

In terms of generally brilliant promos - my two all-time favourites are Dusty Rhodes' "The View Never Changes" promo to Dustin, and William Regal's promo before his final match with Cesaro, which is just a masterpiece. It's a rare case of a wrestler having the confidence to sell the match by saying, "my opponent is just better than I am". I also love Cactus Jack's "Hes Hardcore" promo, which I prefer to the more famous "Cane Dewey". 

 

 

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1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

I think an argument could be made for the "Pipebomb" being responsible for a lot of ills in modern wrestling, in terms of how wrestling engages with its audience, and what the audiences expectations are.

I think if we are going to talk about promos that have defined the ills of modern wrestling and how the audience and the wrestlers engage then this man and this style of promo have dictated the last 18+ years.

This isn't the original but it does show the problem. Austin created a monster that has been difficult for the majority of wrestlers over the years to defeat. No matter what they have tried to say they have been beholden to the "What" chant. It takes a really strong promo to defeat it and in this ultra scripted era most people don't have a chance. 

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I just want to echo the love for Paul Heyman's worked shoot. A worked shoot done right, and still my favourite promo in history.

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"You took Hulk Hogan’s blood and you built Titan Towers. You stole Bret Hart’s dream, and with that money, bought yourself an airplane with WWF all over it. You did that and you know it, you son of a bitch! You stole Shawn Michaels’ smile, took your company public and made yourself a billionaire. But not a self-made billionaire, like you like to tell everybody you are. Oh no…see, you’re a billionaire on other people’s hard work.

Your father, your father, Vince McMahon, your father went around the country and shook the hand…you know I’m telling you the truth, don’t you? You know in your heart that I’m telling you the truth, that your father shook the hand of every promoter in this country that he’d never compete against them, that his son would never compete against them. And when your father DIED, you competed! And with your ruthless, merciless, take-no-prisoners attitude, you drove everybody out of business, didn’t you, Vince? You ran all the competition into the ground and you stole all their ideas and you made yourself a billionaire out of it! And you know whose ideas you stole the most, Vince?

You stole mine. See, I don’t give a damn about Don Owen and Sam Muchnick and Jim Crockett, I care about what you did to me and my family. How you stole my dreams, how you stole my legacy, how you stole everything that Extreme Championship Wrestling represented. Because while Doink the Clown had green hair and a rubber nose, “Stone Cold” Steve Austin was drinking his first beer in ECW, damn you. While Bobby Heenan and Gene Okerlund were dancing around singing “Tutti Fruitti”, ECW was producing the edgy TV that you named “attitude.” ‘Oh, we’ve got attitude!’ You’ve got nothing, man! What you’ve got is my ideas and you stole my life, my money, my legacy! (throws his hat at him) SCREW YOU! SCREW YOU AND YOUR FAMILY! I’ll tell you something, your own children hate your guts! And on Sunday, your children are going to get even with you, for everything that you stole from me, from everything you stole from them! You flaunt your affairs in front of your wife! You flaunt your affairs in Playboy for your children to read! You bastard!"

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Rock's pre match promo to HHH before their leather strap match at Fully Loaded 1999 I think is up top for me as a favourite promo. It's the first one my head goes to the second I think of greatest promos. It's just so, so fucking mean. The delivery of the 25 cents line to Cole makes me think he had less prepped than usual because he goes right in on him. I don't even remember why they got into this, but as a kid I watched this and was totally convinced The Rock was a fucking mega star and HHH was done.

 

 

Edited by Cannibal Man

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15 minutes ago, Cannibal Man said:

Rock's pre match promo to HHH before their leather strap match at Backlash 1999 I think is up top for me as a favourite promo. It's the first one my head goes to the second I think of greatest promos. It's just so, so fucking mean. The delivery of the 25 cents line to Cole makes me think he had less prepped than usual because he goes right in on him. I don't even remember why they got into this, but as a kid I watched this and was totally convinced The Rock was a fucking mega star and HHH was done.

 

 

Never seen that one before, thanks. Absolutely awesome. Wouldn't be surprised if that's genuinely how Rock felt. He had been dropped down the card from number 1 heel to number 2 babyface at that point which he couldn't have been pleased about, then he's got to put Triple H over so that he can be pushed up to number 1 heel! And he's right, Triple H sucked during this period. Absolute cheap heat panto villain. He didn't get good til at least November of that year.

As for the Punk promo, after drifting away from WWE for about 5 years or so beforehand it was the catalyst to me getting back into it in a big way. Looking back though, I'm not sure it's actually that controversial or good. 

Edited by LaGoosh

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I'd give a special mention to the Miz on Talking Smack when he cut loose on Daniel Bryan. The passion, Bryan's understated yet perfect response, added a new layer to their feud, loved everything about it. 

Has Punk's pipebomb lost its impact because with hindsight, we know what was a huge moment in making him, would ultimately be wasted and builds eventually to Triple H vs Nash? 

And Punk did come out with one of Mt favourite lines in wrestling, to Rock: 'Your arms are too short to box with God' 

 

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The timing of the Punk pipebomb is as important as the content, really. I remember many thought WWE, but Raw especially, was as safe, sterile and bland as it had ever been at that point (although they seem like glory days compared to now...) and the top program was Cena vs Truth. Those few months after Mania were some of the most boring weeks of TV they had served up. Then Punk delivered the pipebomb and it just seemed massively fresh and exciting compared to everything that had been going on prior. Him mentioning people like Heyman or Lesnar whose names hadn't been said on WWE TV in years just made it seemed like an big moment too. 

For me, the Summer of Punk is one of their biggest missed opportunites of the past 10 years, one year after they cocked Nexus up too.

Anyway, the answer is;

 

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That ronda and Becky one for me is the biggest missed chance to make something massive in years, the heat that night when Becky chose Ronda was a rare thing in wrestling these days and they fucked it up.

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Although it was obviously a work, it sure didn't feel like it to me watching in 1996. I suppose that makes it as good a promo as any.

"I owe it all to my WWF fans and I won't be going anywhere. I'll be with the WWF forever."

Awks.....

 

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3 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

Although it was obviously a work, it sure didn't feel like it to me watching in 1996. I suppose that makes it as good a promo as any.

"I owe it all to my WWF fans and I won't be going anywhere. I'll be with the WWF forever."

Awks.....

 

Bret is great but absolutely fuck Vince's mugging and hand wringing and his "Alright" and his "YAAAAAOW" at the end. Ugh. 

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Cena and Bryan on Miz TV before Summerslam 2013 was amazing.  Whole promo was excellent, but I've put the link below to start towards the end of it, which was a kind on nod to the smart fans, but still kept true to the story and the intensity of the promo.

"You know I wish, I wish so bad that I could do that (slap Cena like a Japanese wrestler) you right now...but I can't, because you're not a wrestler, and you don't deserve it."

 

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