The Smackers Thread

[air_raid]

It’s taken me this long to realize Emma came back. But it makes me happy. Only because she’s better than some of the scrubs they kept the whole time she was gone.

[Fatty Facesitter]

9 hours ago, FUM said:

It’s nothing to do with how Vince forgot them or they were previously conditioned. The audience haven’t a clue who the likes of Tegan Nox or Candice LeRae are for them to be turning up in the manner they did. They’re being treated like surprise returns who spent lengthy amounts of time on the main roster when I’m not convinced either of them even had a spell there before they turned up. He’s making assumptions that everyone watched NXT after its small boom period when the truth is hardly anyone did.

It’s everything to do with how Vince misused the call-ups and how the audience have become conditioned. If Vince/Prichard etc were clearly never going to invest in them, why should the audience when they know that even if they ferociously supported them, they were still going to get binned whenever a part-timer returned or whenever they got bored? They’ve seen it happen multiple times, not just with NXT but other stars from the past. 

How exactly should they treat these returns? Should they not treat them like a big deal? Case in point, Tegan Nox - Cole and Barrett made it feel like a huge shock and surprise and did everything they could to put her over as a threat. That’s how you treat a return or a re-debut - as if it actually matters. What would be the point in a lukewarm approach? “Oh by the way, that’s matey, you won’t have seen them before because they were on NXT, but good luck to them etc.” It does nothing for anybody. By actively trying to put them over and present them as a big deal, everyone’s a winner in the long term. 

Again I don’t think they’re stupid enough to expect mega pops for each return right out of the gate - they’ll know they have work to do to re-introduce them to the audience and build those connections and that not every single person will have watched NXT. But I find it perplexing to suggest that they shouldn’t treat the returns like a big deal from the outset. 

[FUM]

10 minutes ago, Fatty Facesitter said:

It’s everything to do with how Vince misused the call-ups and how the audience have become conditioned. If Vince/Prichard etc were clearly never going to invest in them, why should the audience when they know that even if they ferociously supported them, they were still going to get binned whenever a part-timer returned or whenever they got bored? They’ve seen it happen multiple times, not just with NXT but other stars from the past. 

How exactly should they treat these returns? Should they not treat them like a big deal? Case in point, Tegan Nox - Cole and Barrett made it feel like a huge shock and surprise and did everything they could to put her over as a threat. That’s how you treat a return or a re-debut - as if it actually matters. What would be the point in a lukewarm approach? “Oh by the way, that’s matey, you won’t have seen them before because they were on NXT, but good luck to them etc.” It does nothing for anybody. By actively trying to put them over and present them as a big deal, everyone’s a winner in the long term. 

Again I don’t think they’re stupid enough to expect mega pops for each return right out of the gate - they’ll know they have work to do to re-introduce them to the audience and build those connections and that not every single person will have watched NXT. But I find it perplexing to suggest that they shouldn’t treat the returns like a big deal from the outset. 

Acts like Tegan Nox running out and nobody knowing them are absolutely nothing to do with Vince. He never called her up to have the chance to make an arse of her. It’s Triple H assuming everyone watched his development league which they didn’t. If Fandango or Tyler Breeze runs out, they probably get a good reaction just by people knowing who they are regardless what Vince done to them.

There’s no suggestion that they shouldn’t treat them like a big deal whatsoever either. The suggestion is tell the audience who they are rather than assuming they know. You can make someone a big deal while explaining their character and their agenda without going “here comes someone you have never heard of running to the ring shes great btw!!” There’s vignettes running for Lacey Evans now, you don’t need to do much more than that to tell the audience who someone is - you can then have the surprise run down interjecting with the big stars if you want and at least the fans have some clue who the person is.

 

[Jazzy G]

4 hours ago, air_raid said:

It’s taken me this long to realize Emma came back. But it makes me happy. Only because she’s better than some of the scrubs they kept the whole time she was gone.

EMMA! EMMA! EMMA? EMMA? EMMA! What a night in Blackpool that was. She was almost as over as American Alpha. 

[DavidB6937]

4 hours ago, FUM said:

Acts like Tegan Nox running out and nobody knowing them are absolutely nothing to do with Vince. He never called her up to have the chance to make an arse of her. It’s Triple H assuming everyone watched his development league which they didn’t. If Fandango or Tyler Breeze runs out, they probably get a good reaction just by people knowing who they are regardless what Vince done to them.

There’s no suggestion that they shouldn’t treat them like a big deal whatsoever either. The suggestion is tell the audience who they are rather than assuming they know. You can make someone a big deal while explaining their character and their agenda without going “here comes someone you have never heard of running to the ring shes great btw!!” There’s vignettes running for Lacey Evans now, you don’t need to do much more than that to tell the audience who someone is - you can then have the surprise run down interjecting with the big stars if you want and at least the fans have some clue who the person is.

 

This is exactly the point. Throwing all these acts out there as surprises and expecting a reaction is a NOW choice. Fuck all to do with Vince and whatever he did with them previously.

There's a huge difference between say Dakota Kai returning at Summerslam where there'll be enough of a smart crowd to get a "ooh!" reaction because the big PPVs will have that kind of audience.. and throwing Tegan out there this week like that. For what? If it had been the Wales PPV then fair enough but otherwise what have you got to gain by that?

Why can't we be told who she is? What she's been through? Why we should care about her? Build up her re-debut. Show her NXT work. Show her injuries. Show her determination. You're not losing anything by NOT having a surprise appearance because she's not nearly a big enough name to benefit from that anyway.

They put out exceptional vignettes and documentaries when they want to. Why not invest some time and effort into these people that are coming back? Convince the audience that they're a big deal. Surprise appearances aren't the only way of doing that.

[Supremo]

(Deservedly) slag off Hunter all you want. I’m going to pop when Adam Rose’s music hits.

[DavidB6937]

21 minutes ago, Supremo said:

(Deservedly) slag off Hunter all you want. I’m going to pop when Adam Rose’s music hits.

Only if it's the original before they ruined it.

[The King Of Swing]

Hopefully he'd evolve his Russell Brand knock off gimmick by going total conspiracy theory spouting, bellend. 

[FUM]

2 hours ago, Supremo said:

(Deservedly) slag off Hunter all you want. I’m going to pop when Adam Rose’s music hits.

Plenty will including myself. He benefits from people knowing who he is.

[Infinity Land]

Saw the clip going round of Tegan Nox sprinting to the ring for her surprise debut. Honestly didn't think it was that bad as the commentary gave you some insights. History with IYO Sky and NXT. Plus she was there making the save in a 3 on 1 situation which put her on the babyface side of things. All these return packages people have talked about could be done after Friday. Interviews or video packages to explain where she's been and why she is back. Which they may well do.

Then I saw the fuller segment of Damage CTL cutting a promo. Liv Morgan coming out cutting a quick promo and picking that 3 on 1 fight. Seconds later Tegan's running down. That's what made it daft to me. Liv could have introduced Tegan and the two of them run down together and it would have worked more effectively.

[DavidB6937]

2 minutes ago, Infinity Land said:

Saw the clip going round of Tegan Nox sprinting to the ring for her surprise debut. Honestly didn't think it was that bad as the commentary gave you some insights. History with IYO Sky and NXT. Plus she was there making the save in a 3 on 1 situation which put her on the babyface side of things. All these return packages people have talked about could be done after Friday. Interviews or video packages to explain where she's been and why she is back. Which they may well do.

Then I saw the fuller segment of Damage CTL cutting a promo. Liv Morgan coming out cutting a quick promo and picking that 3 on 1 fight. Seconds later Tegan's running down. That's what made it daft to me. Liv could have introduced Tegan and the two of them run down together and it would have worked more effectively.

The commentary was exactly the same as everyone else has had recently. For all his "freedom" lately, if I have to hear Michael Cole say "... is back in WWE!" one more time I'll scream.

Plus it's more about the fact that it's in front of a dead crowd. What's the point? If I'm someone watching that and I don't really know much about her and no one's reacting to her then it's pretty depressing really.

Take time. Build her up. Introduce her to a new audience. Re-introduce her to those that knew her before. Make them all care about her then have her come out. Crowd actually give a shit because they've been taught about her and they're excited to see her.

Surprises are great if it's something people are going to react to. AEW are guilty of the same thing.

[Fatty Facesitter]

On 12/4/2022 at 10:00 AM, FUM said:

Acts like Tegan Nox running out and nobody knowing them are absolutely nothing to do with Vince. He never called her up to have the chance to make an arse of her. It’s Triple H assuming everyone watched his development league which they didn’t. If Fandango or Tyler Breeze runs out, they probably get a good reaction just by people knowing who they are regardless what Vince done to them.

You're going off on a couple of different tangents here. Let's keep this sensible - the point made was about Vince failing to utilise and give NXT promotions a clear direction and an opportunity to prosper. There hasn't been any chatter about Vince making an 'arse' of her, as if she's Trish Stratus barking like a fucking dog, so it's important to clarify that distinction. But to ignore the point that he actively failed to further progress the NXT call-ups and that this has directly informed fan opinion of how they should be viewed is laughable.

What's more, you simply can't accuse Triple H of making an arse of her by re-hiring her and giving her a big return moment. He's done the total opposite by making her look like a threat and actively treating it as a big moment. Also, with regards to this implication that Triple H was actively expecting a mega-pop and for every Raw/Smackdown viewer to have watched NXT - you can't seriously suggest he genuinely believes that. Just because he's actively given her a big moment doesn't mean he's expecting a giant reaction out of the gate - he'll be aware that there will be building to do, as there would be with any of his recent returnees. But again, by actively giving them some steam from the word go, it gives them an opportunity to further capitalise on this and to build from there. 

On 12/4/2022 at 10:00 AM, FUM said:

There’s no suggestion that they shouldn’t treat them like a big deal whatsoever either. The suggestion is tell the audience who they are rather than assuming they know. You can make someone a big deal while explaining their character and their agenda without going “here comes someone you have never heard of running to the ring shes great btw!!” There’s vignettes running for Lacey Evans now, you don’t need to do much more than that to tell the audience who someone is - you can then have the surprise run down interjecting with the big stars if you want and at least the fans have some clue who the person is.

This is a positive suggestion, but there's also a need to integrate more bodies to the roster and some fresh faces. There's also the opportunity to do this after a talent has initially returned or debuted - Tegan's story is one that can be told multiple times over as her career develops and as she becomes further re-integrated with the rest of the roster. Commentary actively promoted her as a big deal during her run-in and will continue to do so over the coming weeks - a lukewarm crowd reaction perpetuated by previously failed capitalisation by a previous regime won't harm her development in the long term. 

2 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

The commentary was exactly the same as everyone else has had recently. For all his "freedom" lately, if I have to hear Michael Cole say "... is back in WWE!" one more time I'll scream.

This point is so confusing to me - how exactly should Cole react? Again, by actively trying to promote and put over the talent he's trying to get the audience invested in them. Why would he react any other way other than extremely positive? Give over. 

 

[BomberPat]

3 hours ago, Fatty Facesitter said:

What's more, you simply can't accuse Triple H of making an arse of her by re-hiring her and giving her a big return moment. 

For me, the criticism is that it feels less of a "big return moment" when there are "big return moments" on practically every show, with nothing to differentiate them. They haven't really given us reason to care about Candice LeRae, Mia Yim, Emma, or anyone else being back yet, and we're already on to the next one, and there'll probably be more between now and the Rumble. 

There's no effort to make us care about who Tegan Nox is, beyond "she's obviously a babyface, because she's been booked in a babyface spot". I don't think you can place the blame for that on WWE under Vince, when it's an increasingly regular feature of WWE under Triple H.

 

[DavidB6937]

5 hours ago, Fatty Facesitter said:

This point is so confusing to me - how exactly should Cole react? Again, by actively trying to promote and put over the talent he's trying to get the audience invested in them. Why would he react any other way other than extremely positive? Give over. 

Give over? It's not that confusing a point to understand.

It's because of exactly the same reason Cole was criticised for many years with Vince in his ear.

Because his enthusiasm of "so and so is back in WWE!" felt about as genuine as him trying to read off whatever the sponsors want him to read at the beginning of each show. Get your car fixed! Buy your car parts! Oh and here's another fucking re-hire!

Because how can a man be that genuinely enthusiastic about something that (as Pat says) keeps happening over and over every other week?

At this point Cole would probably be more surprised if someone didn't turn up as a surprise on Smackdown.

Watch Liv Morgan's cash in or some of the other stuff that Cole has done recently. You know, where he actually manages to come across as someone who's really enjoying watching the product.

Of course he's just doing his job but it's the law of diminishing returns. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that they don't need to re-hire people and have them all come back as surprises. Just like Tony Khan doesn't need to turn the lights off every fucking time either.

[Fatty Facesitter]

57 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Give over? It's not that confusing a point to understand.

It's because of exactly the same reason Cole was criticised for many years with Vince in his ear.

Because his enthusiasm of "so and so is back in WWE!" felt about as genuine as him trying to read off whatever the sponsors want him to read at the beginning of each show. Get your car fixed! Buy your car parts! Oh and here's another fucking re-hire!

Because how can a man be that genuinely enthusiastic about something that (as Pat says) keeps happening over and over every other week?

At this point Cole would probably be more surprised if someone didn't turn up as a surprise on Smackdown.

Watch Liv Morgan's cash in or some of the other stuff that Cole has done recently. You know, where he actually manages to come across as someone who's really enjoying watching the product.

Of course he's just doing his job but it's the law of diminishing returns. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that they don't need to re-hire people and have them all come back as surprises. Just like Tony Khan doesn't need to turn the lights off every fucking time either.

You at least got one part of this post correct - he's doing his job. His job is to put over what's taking place in front of him and to sell it as a big deal for the television audience. To suggest he should offer anything other a positive reaction in this instance is an unjust notion. Cole is effectively an actor rather than a traditional sports announcer - he's stated this notion himself. He should be as enthusiastic as possible when something like this arises. The same people that are criticising him for this are the same people who criticised him for lacking enthusiasm in years past. He can't win. As subjective as the booking is, it was absolutely, unequivocally the right call for Cole and Barrett to big it up in a positive manner. 

Quote

 

@BomberPatFor me, the criticism is that it feels less of a "big return moment" when there are "big return moments" on practically every show, with nothing to differentiate them. They haven't really given us reason to care about Candice LeRae, Mia Yim, Emma, or anyone else being back yet, and we're already on to the next one, and there'll probably be more between now and the Rumble. 

There's no effort to make us care about who Tegan Nox is, beyond "she's obviously a babyface, because she's been booked in a babyface spot". I don't think you can place the blame for that on WWE under Vince, when it's an increasingly regular feature of WWE under Triple H.

 

The booking will always be subjective and there will always be a preference for segments to build a character or re-introduce them. But Vince is absolutely culpable for not actively promoting these talents in their previous runs, which was my original point and I stand by it firmly. The other original point was that Triple H keeping the faith with said talent and bringing them back into the fold was a massively positive step. No two people would book a show in the same way, but with a need to freshen the talent pool and Triple H at least giving the individual performers a platform in a positive manner, I think the overt criticism coming his way could be a great deal more balanced. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Fatty Facesitter
Edit - Quote marks not coming through