Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Silky Kisser said: You lot are wasting your time with this. Bart Simpson cupcake gif, indeed. A couple of morons aren't going to change their mind but it's a good discussion anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, garynysmon said: What I will say about Attitude is that is proved that match quality will only get you so far in terms of popularity. Dave Meltzer can well and truly fuck off with his bollocks that there's never been a better time to be a wrestling fan than now. Now you often hear the purists bang on that match quality was shite during the period, but did anyone actually notice or give a shit when the storylines were generally solid? There's no reason why you can't have everyone on the card given some sort of angle or storyline. That's not TV-14, that's just considerate booking. Thing is, the term "match quality" is also a bit nebulous. Usually, the "PG Sux" people will often cite indy spotfests as the gold standard of wrestling, with high levels of athleticism and big, innovative moves. I personally don't agree with that; back in my full-blown smark phase, I might have done, but looking back, I think it's mostly terrible. For me, the best wrestling I've seen and enjoyed have been the British WoS style, the old WWF athletic main event style, i.e. Bret Hart, Macho Man, Ricky Steamboat, etc., the old 70s/80s Southern style (like NWA/JCP/WCW, Memphis or Mid-South), and King's Road. Edited January 30, 2019 by Carbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 30, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2019 Southern Style is a bit of a misnomer. Memphis isn't at all like Mid South, and neither like JCP. Every territory had their own style. Memphis was massively gimmicky brawls whereas Mid South strove for a more realistic atheltic product. They really aren't similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 47 minutes ago, MPDTT said: Devon, I'm wondering if you didn't read my post properly......I'm clearly sayi ng you can target the 18-35 demo without abandoning PG. Said it 3 times now today. You also clearly said this, so y'know... On 1/11/2019 at 11:05 PM, MPDTT said: @Devon MalcolmI don't want AEW to be the new ECW, that was a different time (sadly). We are all too politically correct these days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 And this: 6 hours ago, MPDTT said: but I for one agree that PG is an issue and I hope AEW doesn't got PG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, PowerButchi said: Southern Style is a bit of a misnomer. Memphis isn't at all like Mid South, and neither like JCP. Every territory had their own style. Memphis was massively gimmicky brawls whereas Mid South strove for a more realistic atheltic product. They really aren't similar. I'll be honest, they didn't feel all that dissimilar to me; possibly because when I was first able to watch them, I'd only really been on a diet of mainstream WWF/E stuff, so they all seemed a lot more realistic than most styles, like actual fights, competitions of toughness and endurance, and so on. I certainly got that feel from what I was able to get hold of in Lawler's, Flair's and Funk's stuff, and the same from Mid-South. Either way, I enjoyed what I saw immensely. The only reason I haven't watched more is that my wrestling viewing these days is infrequent at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 Whenever I refer to it, I mean Watts. I'd love to see a modern, big-time take on it. Big, brutish men in real looking fights over shit what matters. With the booker on commentary so he can tell everyone what the story is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: Whenever I refer to it, I mean Watts. I'd love to see a modern, big-time take on it. Big, brutish men in real looking fights over shit what matters. With the booker on commentary so he can tell everyone what the story is. Something Watts did superbly, and which I'll always rate highly when I see it done, and rant about WWE not doing, is that he recognised TV is a storytelling tool in its own right, not just a delivery method. I'm sure it was Watts who had a guy busted open in a TV match, but "refused" to let it air - cutting to the announce team talking about the match, with Watts himself explaining how what was happening was too barbaric to make air. So whatever you imagined must have been ten times worse than the reality. Memphis were great for it too - Lance Russell at the beginning of the Funk/Lawler empty arena match, and how the tape feels like it starts a little too early, lend it a realism completely lacking in WWE's "camera cuts backstage a few seconds before a conversation starts" nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 30, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) I think the greatest example of the differences between the ethos of Watts and Jarrett/Lawler is the way they promoted the Blindfold Battle Royal match. In Mempho it was filler on house shows, somewhat throwaway, occasionally with a comedic element. Watts promoted it as how ever many tonnes of humanity in the ring, unable to see, making it the most dangerous match there is and main event stuff. I think that sums up their differences in ideology pretty well. Edited January 30, 2019 by PowerButchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BomberPat said: Something Watts did superbly, and which I'll always rate highly when I see it done, and rant about WWE not doing, is that he recognised TV is a storytelling tool in its own right, not just a delivery method. I'm sure it was Watts who had a guy busted open in a TV match, but "refused" to let it air - cutting to the announce team talking about the match, with Watts himself explaining how what was happening was too barbaric to make air. So whatever you imagined must have been ten times worse than the reality. Memphis were great for it too - Lance Russell at the beginning of the Funk/Lawler empty arena match, and how the tape feels like it starts a little too early, lend it a realism completely lacking in WWE's "camera cuts backstage a few seconds before a conversation starts" nonsense. That's a good point. WWE have done it before, like the Savage/Roberts/Damien angle, with the screen pauses and the blot-out of the actual bite, and, also, when Regal was GM of RAW and King Of The Ring, there was that bit at the end of the show where he was so enraged that he used his power to get them to take the programme "off air". And, of course, there was the "newsroom" in the early 90s, which I loved. But for the most part, I think you're right that WWE hasn't used the actual medium of TV enough over the years. In fairness, it could be a stylistic choice; we know Vince has this philosophy that he's "making movies", so maybe he wants to minimise as far as possible any emphasis on or reference to the production process, giving the illusion of seamless storyline. Edited January 30, 2019 by Carbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 The inconsistency is appalling though. Routinely characters have conversations as though they are oblivious to the cameras, that we the audience are getting to see them but they don't know, otherwise they wouldn't risk their enemies/tag partners/forthcoming opponents/mistresses getting to hear them. However also routinely, characters are shown backstage conversations and incidents that should make it perfectly obvious that if you're in the building for Raw, chances are a camera is watching you. It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bus Surfer Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 hours ago, tiger_rick said: A couple of morons aren't going to change their mind but it's a good discussion anyway. The discussion was great and I wholeheartedly agree with what you guys are saying, but people have been trying to reason with this dude for a few weeks and he's just not interested in seeing it any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 What also makes no sense, which I cannot unsee now Ian has brought it to my attention, is the unnatural way in which wrestlers watch their rivals on TV backstage. It's not chairshots that will destroy their necks these days, it's watching a TV screen from a stupid angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 40 minutes ago, air_raid said: The inconsistency is appalling though. Routinely characters have conversations as though they are oblivious to the cameras, that we the audience are getting to see them but they don't know, otherwise they wouldn't risk their enemies/tag partners/forthcoming opponents/mistresses getting to hear them. However also routinely, characters are shown backstage conversations and incidents that should make it perfectly obvious that if you're in the building for Raw, chances are a camera is watching you. It makes no sense. One thing that has just come to mind in line with that point is the Eddy Guerrero/China storyline, when he pinned her by accident and won her IC title. They did a whole angle next week where he apologised like hell to her, and even offered to give it back to her, which she refused. When they hugged, they zoomed in on Eddy's face on her shoulder, smiling this dirty, sneaky grin. The next week, Chyna calls him out, saying she saw his face on that footage, and realised he didn't mean any of it. I really liked that at the time, because it's quite rare to see that; usually, when there's a misunderstanding or a misdirection, it leads to a feud which then continues because, for some reason, the wrestlers don't watch the previous show footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPDTT Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 1:12 PM, PunkStep said: And this: Sorry, crazy couple of days at work, plus got builders in renovating the house....it's a bit mental. Where was I......I would prefer AEW to be TV-14 as it's less restrictive, but I don't believe you have to abandon PG to target the 18-35 demo. That was the point I was making. It's not the rating that defines whether the product is childish or not - the writing, type of characters you present and the in ring style can all be adapted to appeal to an older demo without having to do anything that breaches those PG guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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