Paid Members garynysmon Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 hours ago, IANdrewDiceClay said: Impact is the only one who really does that 90s bullshit, and that's because they've just shown up on a channel where the wrestlers on the show outnumber those who get the channel on their service. And let's be honest, its pretty fucking tame compared to the excesses of the 90's. Only the Scarlett Bordeaux stuff stands out, and that's pretty PG in reality, and maybe Barbed Wire Massacre which wasn't even shown on TV. As others have said, while it was pretty funny at the time, it was only funny because I was 15,16,17 at the time. Now I'm 34 it would just be naff and I think that many teenagers these days would be offended if they went back and watched this stuff as they have been conditioned differently. There's a good reason why I've never actively gone back to watch much weekly TV post-1997, most of my fond memories of that time could have easily been tweaked and came off just as well as part of a PG product. No one really looks back and remembers Ken Shamrock taking sexual repellent tablets and PMS basically pimping out Shawn Stasiak as glory times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, PunkStep said: Good example, when I was reading Pat and Carbomb's posts I immediately thought of Howard Stern- and Tom Green. Plus, not forgetting the popularity of South Park back then as well. South Park is actually an example of a product evolving and changing with the audience. It's still just as popular, only now it's a show based on social and political commentary rather than solely about swearing and finding a way to kill Kenny each week. WWE slowly began to change and grow with their new audience in 2008, when they went HD and Cena returned to that massive pop at the Rumble. Now, a decade later, they have money pouring out of every faucet and the PG rating is still there. Whilst I'm not a big fan of WWE's output for the past few years, I also know that it's got nothing to do with the PG rating. 80's WWF and mid-90's WCW can answer to that. Go and read any of Bomber Pat's posts about CHIKARA and all the expertly written stories they produced, all in a PG manner. New Japan is also PG if you take the shit like Tama Tonga and Bad Luck Fale out of the equation. I mean, Jaws is one of the greatest films of all time and that's PG too, and it has blood, memorable characters and dialogue, and people being eaten by sharks. It's a very adult-focused film but set within PG guidelines, so added swearing, sex, gore, drug use or anything related to a higher-age group isn't going to improve it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, Carbomb said: The only thing I can think of from the Attitude Era that wasn't shit was Stone Cold and the feud with McMahon, but I think it can also be argued that, even with PG, Stone Cold would still be pretty watchable, because the swearing and violence wasn't actually what he was about. A couple of years ago, I'd probably have almost agreed but then I went back and watched 1998 and to call it shit is absolute nonsense. The shows have an energy to them that is second to none. Whatever Austin and McMahon are up to is super over but The Rock and the Nation are great, X-Pac is a bundle of energy in the ring, Kane is over huge, Foley is gold, Undertaker is still relevent. You've got some great underneath guys like D'Lo, Owen and Shamrock. Even the Kaientai boys flying about. I don't disagree with the general point, I think you could have toned it down and had the same effect. 1999 is pretty dire but it rebounds big time in 2000. Even then though, I reckon all the bits about 2000 that I hate the most are the vulgar bits. 11 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said: Mind when The Rock feuded with Cena and The Great One showed the poster child of "PG Sux" how awesome wrestling used to be? No, you don't, because "Fruity Pebbles" exposed how fucking naff The Rock's schtick is. The Rock's stuff is naff and childish but again, going back and watching it, he's a fucking megastar. I think the Hollywood stuff in 2003 is my favourite Rock followed by Nation leader in wating Rock in 98. Pretty much anything he does from 98-2003 is incredible though. The content is shit but the poise, the timing and the improv is utter gold. Cena showed how great he is during their feud but I think in all honesty, that's because Cena is far better than anyone ever gives him credit for, not because The Rock isn't magnificent. I do think The Rock is responsible for the shitty pause, pause, pause promo style they enforce today though so fuck that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Accident Prone said: South Park is actually an example of a product evolving and changing with the audience. It's still just as popular, only now it's a show based on social and political commentary rather than solely about swearing and finding a way to kill Kenny each week. ... I mean, Jaws is one of the greatest films of all time and that's PG too, and it has blood, memorable characters and dialogue, and people being eaten by sharks. It's a very adult-focused film but set within PG guidelines, so added swearing, sex, gore, drug use or anything related to a higher-age group isn't going to improve it at all. To the first point, I'd argue that South Park isn't a great example, because it's got a lot more outrageous and sweary than it ever was in the 90s. They used to bleep out the swearwords in the first two or three seasons, but now there's not just swearing but graphic sex and violence. To the second, as an addendum to my previous couple of posts, I'd go so far as to argue that I can't think of any storyline that wrestling could do that would warrant shifting to a more adult rating. When you look at the issues discussed in a lot of adult-orientated movies, they're things that wrestling can't go anywhere near - stuff like sex, murder, conspiracy, rape, paedophilia, organised crime, etc. I don't see how any of those could be fit into the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 30, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 hours ago, MPDTT said: A more intense, more athletic style can be performed under PG You mean like the style which is performed now in pretty much super indie WWE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Carbomb said: To the first point, I'd argue that South Park isn't a great example, because it's got a lot more outrageous and sweary than it ever was in the 90s. They used to bleep out the swearwords in the first two or three seasons, but now there's not just swearing but graphic sex and violence. Aye, I totally get that but the creators added a hell of a lot more emphasis on the show's heavily real life-based topics. So whilst the swearing, sex and violence has increased, it's not without a massive, massive upturn in story, writing and character work. Edited January 30, 2019 by Accident Prone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: A couple of years ago, I'd probably have almost agreed but then I went back and watched 1998 and to call it shit is absolute nonsense. The shows have an energy to them that is second to none. Whatever Austin and McMahon are up to is super over but The Rock and the Nation are great, X-Pac is a bundle of energy in the ring, Kane is over huge, Foley is gold, Undertaker is still relevent. You've got some great underneath guys like D'Lo, Owen and Shamrock. Even the Kaientai boys flying about. I get what you're saying, but I'd argue that wasn't representative of the Attitude Era, it just happened to occur during it. Yeah, there was swearing and some risqué stuff, but the essence of what made those stories, angles, and matches great wasn't the TV-14 rating. Put it this way: the things you describe weren't impossible outside the Attitude Era, because it wasn't the specific Attitude "values" that made them great; the same talent and the same booking would've been just as great now as back then, because it wasn't the swearing and tits that made it. Edited January 30, 2019 by Carbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPDTT Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Devon Malcolm said: Banned moves - it should be noted, if you were paying any intention, that WWE very occasionally uses things such as the piledriver. See Cena vs Punk. By banning them, you can use them for shock effect instead of everyone dropping each other on their heads to no effect. That's how you freshen things up, not by letting everyone do whatever the fuck the want. Blood - again, you've not been paying attention. There have been quite a few matches in WWE recently where there has been blood, even in Wrestlemania main events. And it's enough to create a reaction. Intense, athletic style - what does this even mean? Isn't that what they do in NXT? Adult storytelling - I've brought you to task on this before and you never answered it so I'll say it again. For decades Hollywood made films aimed at adult audiences and, because of the Hays Code, they all had to be PG rated. If you can't create an adult-aimed product in a PG restriction then you're not creative enough. Let's face facts. You're just another 'PG sux' dude and, lest we forget, a 'political correctness gone mad!' berk. You don't know what you're talking about. Devon, I'm wondering if you didn't read my post properly......I'm clearly sayi ng you can target the 18-35 demo without abandoning PG. Said it 3 times now today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 30, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Carbomb said: When you look at the issues discussed in a lot of adult-orientated movies, they're things that wrestling can't go anywhere near - stuff like sex, murder, conspiracy, rape, paedophilia, organised crime, etc. I don't see how any of those could be fit into the product. And when wrestling has touched them, let's use HHH and Steph's wedding for rape, it was pretty awful. People seem to forget the whole McMahon-Helmsley angle was saved by HHH and Cactus Jack just putting on good matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPDTT Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, PowerButchi said: You mean like the style which is performed now in pretty much super indie WWE? Absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, Carbomb said: I get what you're saying, but I'd argue that wasn't representative of the Attitude Era, it just happened to occur during it. Yeah, there was swearing and some risqué stuff, but the essence of what made those stories, angles, and matches great wasn't the TV-14 rating. Put it this way: the things you describe weren't impossible outside the Attitude Era, because it wasn't the specific Attitude "values" that made them great; the same talent and the same booking would've been just as great now as back then, because it wasn't the swearing and tits that made it. I agreed with that but you've cut out the bit of my quote where I say so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bus Surfer Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 You lot are wasting your time with this. Bart Simpson cupcake gif, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: I agreed with that but you've cut out the bit of my quote where I say so! Sorry! I was just trying to say that I wasn't calling 1998's output shit in general, just that what was typically "Attitude" about '98 wasn't what made it great. I should've been clearer on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted January 30, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Carbomb said: Sorry! I was just trying to say that I wasn't calling 1998's output shit in general, just that what was typically "Attitude" about '98 wasn't what made it great. I should've been clearer on that. What I will say about Attitude is that is proved that match quality will only get you so far in terms of popularity. Dave Meltzer can well and truly fuck off with his bollocks that there's never been a better time to be a wrestling fan than now. Now you often hear the purists bang on that match quality was shite during the period, but did anyone actually notice or give a shit when the storylines were generally solid? There's no reason why you can't have everyone on the card given some sort of angle or storyline. That's not TV-14, that's just considerate booking. Edited January 30, 2019 by garynysmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 30, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, MPDTT said: Absolutely! So, the same wrestling that seemingly every single promotion has across the world these days then. Be different by being the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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