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MPDTT

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Can't say anything Punker hasn't already so won't try. More bollocks about PG/18-35 instead of just pointing out the flaws in the way WWE choose to book. Sad thing is, there are probably people running companies who believe this shit.

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It could be argued that the Attitude Era nearly killed pro wrestling in the States.  Those few years burnt through so many stars, closed two of the three major companies, and inured the audience to all but the most dangerous, most brutal spectacles.  By 2001 WWE was the only company left standing and most of its stars were nearing unnaturally early ends to their careers.

The WWE is where most fans start, as kids - and that's the generator that has kept wrestling going through the difficult periods, and created the audience for all the other more niche promotions now flourishing.  It's taken 20 years of "PG" WWE to rebuild the wrestling industry, there's no way they'd risk it again.

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2 minutes ago, Loki said:

It could be argued that the Attitude Era nearly killed pro wrestling in the States.  Those few years burnt through so many stars, closed two of the three major companies, and inured the audience to all but the most dangerous, most brutal spectacles.  By 2001 WWE was the only company left standing and most of its stars were nearing unnaturally early ends to their careers.

I think that's a very fair argument with some merit to it. One thing that I think is clear, is that whilst it gave the industry a massive boom, it has made running/booking a major wrestling company much more difficult since then.

Over-saturation is the main issue- due to the two warring companies trying to get one up on each other with the number of PPVs they run, the amount of hours their weekly TV shows have etc. I think that has had a huge negative impact on creativity. They want to get everyone on TV each week, but at the same time feuds are shorter in terms of time periods because there are weekly interactions that you wouldn't have had before the boom. So feuds are happening and finishing within a matter of weeks or months, and therefore there are fewer fresh feuds to have because before long, everyone has had a programme with everyone else. It's much harder to try and build a star as well as you see everyone all the time. But during the Monday Night Wars, each company felt like they HAD to have the big names on every week in order to try to keep up with the other in the ratings war. That has stuck since then.

And so here we are in 2019 with an insistence of constant on-screen authority characters, formulaic shows that begin with the same in-ring segment and often with the same people, 3 hours of RAW (which is at least 1 hour too much), 50/50 booking, more than a dozen PPVs a year and people complaining about the PG era.

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Maybe ROH should consider going PG themselves seeing as they struggle to fill any venue that isn't during WrestleMania weekend.

In other news, Dave Meltzer this morning said Trent and Chuckie T are on the way out of New Japan and will be probably be joining AEW. I can already hear @Liam O'Rourkesinging with glee.

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1 minute ago, Accident Prone said:

In other news, Dave Meltzer this morning said Trent and Chuckie T are on the way out of New Japan and will be probably be joining AEW.

I think I speak for all New Japan fans when I say <<scott_hall_scared_fingers.gif>>

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1 hour ago, MPDTT said:

That's my point.

Banned moves can return under PG

A little blood can return under PG

A more intense, more athletic  style can be performed under PG

Story telling that is of more interest to the 18-35 demo can happen under PG

Banned moves - it should be noted, if you were paying any intention, that WWE very occasionally uses things such as the piledriver. See Cena vs Punk. By banning them, you can use them for shock effect instead of everyone dropping each other on their heads to no effect. That's how you freshen things up, not by letting everyone do whatever the fuck the want.

Blood - again, you've not been paying attention. There have been quite a few matches in WWE recently where there has been blood, even in Wrestlemania main events. And it's enough to create a reaction.

Intense, athletic style - what does this even mean? Isn't that what they do in NXT?

Adult storytelling - I've brought you to task on this before and you never answered it so I'll say it again. For decades Hollywood made films aimed at adult audiences and, because of the Hays Code, they all had to be PG rated. If you can't create an adult-aimed product in a PG restriction then you're not creative enough.

Let's face facts. You're just another 'PG sux' dude and, lest we forget, a 'political correctness gone mad!' berk. You don't know what you're talking about.

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5 minutes ago, air_raid said:

I think I speak for all New Japan fans when I say <<scott_hall_scared_fingers.gif>>

 

As a big Best Friends fan who has traveled to shows just to see them, I'm disappointed that they're leaving the big stage of New Japan but very intrigued as to how AEW will use them. Trent is a vastly underrated singles wrestler so I hope he gets a nice run as a secondary champ.

 

Edited by Accident Prone
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Smackdown was always PG, for its entire run, and got away with all kinds of shit. People complaining about "PG" invariably don't even know what PG means.

I find a lot of Attitude Era, and immediately post-Attitude Era, wrestling almost unwatchable. I don't want to see "Hot Lesbian Action", "Pie Eating Contests", and all the other frat boy humour that defined that era on wrestling shows. It's the sort of thing that would make me ashamed to admit to liking this shit.

Some of the greatest movies, some of the greatest stories ever told, were PG. Almost all of wrestling's greatest ever storylines were PG. There's absolutely nothing about "PG" that stops WWE from writing better angles and producing better TV. Their problems lie elsewhere.

Edited by BomberPat
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30 minutes ago, Accident Prone said:

Trent is a vastly underrated singles wrestler so I hope he gets a nice run as a secondary champ.

Settle. They haven't run one show or have a primary title yet, let's see them run long enough and have a deep enough roster to warrant two singles titles - that took ROH three years.

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That's a fair enough point. Big Match Trent will have his day.

It was actually a match that Trent had with Pete Dunne way back in 2013 for Kamikaze Pro that I first realised, a) Trent is really quite bloody good, and b) Pete Dunne is going to be a fucking superstar.

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36 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Smackdown was always PG, for its entire run, and got away with all kinds of shit. People complaining about "PG" invariably don't even know what PG means.

I find a lot of Attitude Era, and immediately post-Attitude Era, wrestling almost unwatchable. I don't want to see "Hot Lesbian Action", "Pie Eating Contests", and all the other frat boy humour that defined that era on wrestling shows. It's the sort of thing that would make me ashamed to admit to liking this shit.

Some of the greatest movies, some of the greatest stories ever told, were PG. Almost all of wrestling's greatest ever storylines were PG. There's absolutely nothing about "PG" that stops WWE from writing better angles and producing better TV. Their problems lie elsewhere.

Agreed.

There have been plenty of excellent films covering adult topics, but they've been made with skill, care, and subtlety. Looking back on the Attitude Era, there are very few angles and storylines I can think of that reached that same level; wrestling is probably not the medium to deal with such stories, and especially not during an era that seemed to be mainly catering to the teens and young adults.

It's often been pointed out on here that the whole nWo thing was done completely under PG; I don't think anyone's ever complained about the nWo on the basis of what they were restricted from doing. If anything, the complaints are usually about the complete opposite.

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Even Howard Stern has realised he had to move with the times and his schtick is now more of a lovable uncle than a "shock jock". He too has fans that are livid because they want him to make more cock jokes and degrade pretty women, but that won't fly these days.

The point, Attitude Era was very de rigueur. In the late 90s Stern had a silly amount of radio listeners and you had the likes of Marilyn Manson in the charts. If you were to do it now it would 100% feel as dated and naff as all those Raw shows we got around 2002/03, which was the time I tapped out of wrestling for about 5 years.

Loki's point about WWE having to rebuild the brand of wrestling for the past 10 years or so is brilliant. It's spot on. Now Vince is getting the rewards by signing all these big telly deals, which 100% has turned a few heads and we've now got the likes of AEW about. For as off-form as Vince has been for the past 5 years, we've still got the likes of Becky, Ronda, Brock and Bryan cutting about being brilliant. That's all from PG.

Edited by ColinBollocks
Anyone remember tamagotchis?
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Good example, when I was reading Pat and Carbomb's posts I immediately thought of Howard Stern- and Tom Green. Plus, not forgetting the popularity of South Park back then as well.

If you look at the bits of the Attitude era that wouldn't fly on a PG show, 99% of it was absolute shite and completely unwatchable. As Pat says, stuff that would make you ashamed to admit liking WWE. Even back then whilst in the 6th form, if I'd stick on one of my tapes in the common room you'd always get 'what the fuck are they doing this shit for? Where's Hacksaw Jim Duggan and his plank of wood?'. The frat joke stuff was even stupid for a bunch of 16 year olds at my school.

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The only thing I can think of from the Attitude Era that wasn't shit was Stone Cold and the feud with McMahon, but I think it can also be argued that, even with PG, Stone Cold would still be pretty watchable, because the swearing and violence wasn't actually what he was about.

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