Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted February 8, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 8, 2018 7 hours ago, theringmaster said: All very good points but back to my ORIGINAL point... What if you are a promoter who has a)never done any wrong doing and b)Nobody in your promotion has done any wrong doing but then find yourself having your shows cancelled by the venues because of the actions? The trend seems to be 'If you are in the wrestling business then you are guilty of wrong doing'.Most of guys in the business would pass a CRB check with flying colors. Isn't that just a consequence of being in business? A big scandal in any industry will affect everybody involved in it. Whether that be cunts putting horsemeat in frozen burgers, banks fucking over investors or wrestling trainers molesting their trainees. I'm sure a lot of good causes lost out because Savile was exposed. That doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it. If anything the threat of a scandal affecting the entire UK scene should motivate people to sort it out. If you hear rumours that somebody is a wrong 'un then report it. If the Police aren't interested then that's on them. You'd have done your part and the prospect of a Police visit might at least encourage Promoters to get the proper background checks carried out. Whether anything shows up or not isn't all that important. It's a risk assessment. It just shows that you've done all you could reasonably be expected to do. The other thing I don't get is why people continued to work for, and with, these cunts if the rumours were so rife. If your career and a few bookings are so important to you that you'd work for a nonce then I'm not going to shed any tears for you if it eventually bites you in the arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted February 8, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) You’re absolutely right @Carbomb, the wrestling biz hasn’t moved on from being able to smoke bines in the staff room, or caning kids for not tucking their shirts in. It’s still an era behind every fucker else. Edited February 8, 2018 by Kaz Hayashi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted February 8, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 8, 2018 Terrific post there @Carbomb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: You're right, saying you are nonce free is certainly worse than sexual abuse. That’s not the same thing at all. You don’t get music concerts saying “ we aren’t michael Jackson” on their concert posters do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Four Horsemen Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 The vast majority of wrestling promotions are not registered businesses, this means the vast majority of the promoters wont want to spend on CRB checks, enhanced or not. So unless the promoters, the talent and everyone else is going to start paying tax on earnings and declaring themselves as businesses then change will never happen. So where every major promotion like ICW, Attack! Pro Wrestling are registered and submit year ends etc. Sadly its now going to take a long time if ever before the problem is solved. Or as someone commented to myself the other day after reading Twitter "Its got to the stage where you look at a poster for the show and wonder which one of the people on it will be outed next". As for the fans "ruining" the business, that happened years ago. It could be argued when every single person watching a show or frequenting this forum got smart to the business of wrestling and saw through the smoke and mirrors that that ruined the business, could it not? Fans have every right to complain, they pay the wages of the people running the shows and the people being used on them and the customers input and money are the most important things that count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted February 8, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 8, 2018 32 minutes ago, The Four Horsemen said: So unless the promoters, the talent and everyone else is going to start paying tax on earnings and declaring themselves as businesses then change will never happen. So where every major promotion like ICW, Attack! Pro Wrestling are registered and submit year ends etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Louch said: That’s not the same thing at all. You don’t get music concerts saying “ we aren’t michael Jackson” on their concert posters do you? That wasn't what you posted though, you said posters with that on it makes it sound more sleazy than what has come out. I'd say that the abuse that's come out is far more sleazy than declaring your workers have an accreditation. If you don't think so, fair enough, but it's worrying if you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Cod Eye Posted February 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 9, 2018 9 hours ago, Louch said: You can’t just have one check you take everywhere. I used to have one done from 18 onwards as I lived at home and my parents fostered. But needed a separate one done for work plastering “ all our performers are checked” on posters makes it sound even sleazier than what has come out already. What other forms of entertainment show that? Issue is in training, not from shows themselves We have been looking for things for our kids to do in the upcoming half term holiday. In our area, there are a number of events and classes(such as dancing for the youngest and football, rugby and indoor cricket for the elder 2). When looking into each option, they all proudly stated that all staff were fully trained in their field, CRB checked and had full public liability insurance. Not a single activity came across as "seedy" or "sleazy", and all makes me as a parent feel safer in the knowledge that I can leave my children in their care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Cod Eye said: We have been looking for things for our kids to do in the upcoming half term holiday. In our area, there are a number of events and classes(such as dancing for the youngest and football, rugby and indoor cricket for the elder 2). When looking into each option, they all proudly stated that all staff were fully trained in their field, CRB checked and had full public liability insurance. Not a single activity came across as "seedy" or "sleazy", and all makes me as a parent feel safer in the knowledge that I can leave my children in their care. How many shows attending just to watch have that? The chat has moved from trainees to attendees of shows. Yes declare that if training, there’s no need for that to be on a show poster and for every wrestler on a show to have that declared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Keith Houchen said: That wasn't what you posted though, you said posters with that on it makes it sound more sleazy than what has come out. I'd say that the abuse that's come out is far more sleazy than declaring your workers have an accreditation. If you don't think so, fair enough, but it's worrying if you do. The problem isn’t anywhere near widespread or reached the public eye enough for every show in every town to have to declare that on a show poster. Saying that on a poster would give impression every show in every town had a wrong un on it. What other shows just to attend and watch show this on them? Not talking training to wrestle, I can’t say I have seen it on a pantomime, gig poster etc. Saying “we are nonse free” gives impression that show had a nonse they chased out. And many people would look at that as “well can’t have just Been one of them” and give it a wide berth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted February 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 9, 2018 12 hours ago, The Four Horsemen said: So unless the promoters, the talent and everyone else is going to start paying tax on earnings and declaring themselves as businesses then change will never happen. So where every major promotion like ICW, Attack! Pro Wrestling are registered and submit year ends etc. Attack! and ICW are both registered companies, as are the majority - if not all - notable promotions in the country. I don't think we need to start putting "all our performers are background checked" on a poster for an event, but it's something worth keeping in your back pocket. If a venue gets wind of some dodginess in BritWres, and is on the fence about whether they want to go ahead with your show or not, as a promoter it's going to help you to have that card in your deck. If you're negotiating a contract to run a tour of holiday camps or hotels, or anywhere else you're likely to be performing to an audience that's majority children/families, you want to be able to say that you and all your workers have clean background checks. If you're running a training school, you absolutely list that fact in any advertising or literature, as you would for any other sports training facility. Beyond that, you'll always get people saying that it won't help because DBS checks only pick up prior convictions and aren't going to flag wrong'uns that haven't been caught, but it's a step in the right direction, it's the bare minimum we should be doing, it sends the right messages, and it (hopefully) makes promoters think twice about booking someone they know to be dodgy. Because it's not just about getting rid of a few bad apples, it's about addressing the entire culture that allows it - post-kayfabe, there's no excuse for wrestling to still be stuck to this dated closed shop, code of silence mentality, and it's that mentality that allows this shit to happen. I doubt we'll ever see a regulatory body for wrestling, and I doubt the mainstream will ever shine a light on the culture of abuse within the industry, so it's up to those within wrestling to self-police - and that doesn't just mean outing nonces on Twitter, it's about asking questions of everyone involved, of holding promoters to account for who they book, and especially addressing the issue at training schools first and foremost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Louch said: The problem isn’t anywhere near widespread or reached the public eye enough for every show in every town to have to declare that on a show poster. Saying that on a poster would give impression every show in every town had a wrong un on it. What other shows just to attend and watch show this on them? Not talking training to wrestle, I can’t say I have seen it on a pantomime, gig poster etc. Saying “we are nonse free” gives impression that show had a nonse they chased out. And many people would look at that as “well can’t have just Been one of them” and give it a wide berth. I think we are at crossed wires. I'm saying the abuse that happened is far worse than a declaration on a poster could ever be. I'm not advocating the need for "Nonce free since 2015" on a poster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted February 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Keith Houchen said: I think we are at crossed wires. I'm saying the abuse that happened is far worse than a declaration on a poster could ever be. I'm not advocating the need for "Nonce free since 2015" on a poster. "Crazy World Of Arthur Brown No More" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted February 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) In the late 90’s Alton Towers used to pay myself and loads of other 16 year olds to ‘park tend’, you were put on shifts to do owt required in terms of low tiered jobs.. not a CRB in sight. Is it fair to assume they have changed with the times? Has Walter the Waltzer and Hook a Duck Chuck all got officially clean backgrounds now? Just wondering if the likes of these and holiday parks practice our preaching, and whether they give a fuck if a hired wrestling company has DBS or not? Edit - FAQ on Butlins careers page.. FFS. ‘Some roles require a DBS check’... I wonder how many and which ‘careers’ actually do. I’m sure most do, but for those who don’t, ‘spent’ just means the criminal justice system is no longer involved. Edited February 9, 2018 by Kaz Hayashi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted February 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 9, 2018 It wouldn't have to say it on the poster, but surely be presented to whoever owns the venue when arranging the show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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