SuperBacon Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 25 minutes ago, Shy Dad said: 13-0 win isn't it or did I read the wrong report? Scotland win tomorrow and they're now guaranteed a play off place with Greece being the team left out if Ireland win 3-0 against Wales. We have some hope... No it's a 12 GD so just the 7-0 should do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members I Bent My Wookie Posted October 8, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2017 Jesus, I literally started at that table knowing they played each other and still managed to screw up that if Sweden conceded a goal Holland would still have to score 13... Stoptober is breaking my brain. That and a lack of sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 9 hours ago, Shy Dad said: Jesus, I literally started at that table knowing they played each other and still managed to screw up that if Sweden conceded a goal Holland would still have to score 13... Stoptober is breaking my brain. That and a lack of sleep. 😂 Don't worry, even the commentator last night (Sam Matterface?) kept saying they needed to win 13-0 as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 8, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2017 14 hours ago, SuperBacon said: Just the 6-0 win required for the Dutch against Sweden then... It makes me a bit sad to be honest. I think, like many others around my age, World Cup 1990* was my earliest football memory and yes I loved Gazza and Linekar and they are the sole reasons I'm a Spurs fan, but I was also obsessed with the Holland West Germany teams of that tournament, obviously spurred on by their immense game in the second round and all the drama involved. I absolutely rinsed my 1990 Review tape watching that game (which featured an insane effort by Klinsmann), and loved watching Gullit, Rijkaard, van Basten et al, and have always enjoyed watching them play, so yeah, bit sad to see them struggling so badly. Surely this sensation isn't new to you, though? They went through a mediocre patch in the mid-90s with Kluivert, Seedorf and Cruyff Jr. (not saying they were the specific ones to blame, though). In comparison to their run of greatness up to '94, they were surprisingly unsolid. I don't think we could have hammered them 4-1 if they hadn't been. That's not to run that England team down; that time under Venables was probably the strongest England's looked since Robson, but to beat the Netherlands 4-1 had to be a combo of England being good and them being poor. I don't think that England team would've beaten the team of Rijkaard, Gullit, van Basten, the Koemans, etc. A draw at best. Tell you who were massively underrated as a team to watch: the USSR. They weren't always the most solid team, but they, like a lot of the old Soviet bloc teams, played very stylish, well-crafted technical football. Fun to watch, as were Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladiesman345 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 The reason the USSR were so stylish is because they usually played with 12 men on the park. The cheating Ruski bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @Carbomb Have you read "Inverting The Pyramid"? The chapter on Lobanovskyi and his Kyiv and national team are fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 8, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2017 12 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: @Carbomb Have you read "Inverting The Pyramid"? The chapter on Lobanovskyi and his Kyiv and national team are fascinating. I haven't, but thanks for that recco! Will check it out. That era of Soviet teams was an interesting period of football history, especially given the difference in organisation and infrastructure, i.e. teams being organised around factories, players not being allowed to transfer out of their respective countries, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Carbomb said: Surely this sensation isn't new to you, though? They went through a mediocre patch in the mid-90s with Kluivert, Seedorf and Cruyff Jr. (not saying they were the specific ones to blame, though). In comparison to their run of greatness up to '94, they were surprisingly unsolid. I don't think we could have hammered them 4-1 if they hadn't been. That's not to run that England team down; that time under Venables was probably the strongest England's looked since Robson, but to beat the Netherlands 4-1 had to be a combo of England being good and them being poor. I don't think that England team would've beaten the team of Rijkaard, Gullit, van Basten, the Koemans, etc. A draw at best. Tell you who were massively underrated as a team to watch: the USSR. They weren't always the most solid team, but they, like a lot of the old Soviet bloc teams, played very stylish, well-crafted technical football. Fun to watch, as were Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. Â No, I didn't say it was a new sensation, they've been poor for years. I'm just saying as a team that have given me a lot of excellent football memories over the years, it's a real shame to see, and it's not as if they haven't had the talent over the last 10 years in my opinion. Going out of Euro 2000 in the manner they did was just bizarre...Can't remember another team missing that many penalties in one entire match. Euro 96, England-Holland was the best England performance I have ever seen. They were as near to perfect as I've ever seen live, and watching it back as a not hyperventilating 11 year old, the whole team were class across the field. They would've beaten anyone by that score line that day. Another recommendation for Inverting The Pyramid, and Behind The Curtain by Jonathan Wilson as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 8, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2017 22 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: No, I didn't say it was a new sensation, they've been poor for years. I'm just saying as a team that have given me a lot of excellent football memories over the years, it's a real shame to see, and it's not as if they haven't had the talent over the last 10 years in my opinion. Going out of Euro 2000 in the manner they did was just bizarre...Can't remember another team missing that many penalties in one entire match. Euro 96, England-Holland was the best England performance I have ever seen. They were as near to perfect as I've ever seen live, and watching it back as a not hyperventilating 11 year old, the whole team were class across the field. They would've beaten anyone by that score line that day. Another recommendation for Inverting The Pyramid, and Behind The Curtain by Jonathan Wilson as well. That's fair enough, but I still think that England team, as great as they were, wouldn't have beaten the Italia '90 team by that score-line. It would've been a great win, but that Holland team would never let four past them. If England had won, I would have said it would be 2-1 at best. Thanks for the recommendations, will definitely check those out. I haven't read enough football books in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted October 8, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2017 3 hours ago, Carbomb said: Tell you who were massively underrated as a team to watch: the USSR. They weren't always the most solid team, but they, like a lot of the old Soviet bloc teams, played very stylish, well-crafted technical football. Fun to watch, as were Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. Absolutely, hardly ever get a mention given how good all three were from the 60s through to the dissection of the teams. Between them during that period they won 2 Euros, runners up at a further 5 Euros, world cup runners up once and a few more world cup semi appearances. Imagine a unified Yugoslavia team at various points over the past 15 years? They'd be immense. @Keith Houchen I've started reading My Turn- you highly recommend this book, right? As for Netherlands in mid-90s, they were pretty bloody good. Two quarter final and two semi final appearances in major tournaments from 92-98 isn't bad going, although given the talent at their disposal they certainly underachieved. Stark contrast to this side that have now failed to qualify for two consecutive major tournaments, it's a shame to see. The worst part is their manner of failing to qualify- they've never anywhere good enough over the past few years to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 55 minutes ago, PunkStep said: Â @Keith Houchen I've started reading My Turn- you highly recommend this book, right? I have, but didn't know if I did on here. Â I always harp on about Brilliant Orange by David Winner though, and shamelessly here is something I wrote about Cruyff helping me learn to drive. https://talesfromthecynicalside.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/johan-cruyff-taught-me-how-to-drive-on-the-motorway/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted October 8, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2017 3 hours ago, SuperBacon said: Another recommendation for Inverting The Pyramid, and Behind The Curtain by Jonathan Wilson as well. Have you read Angels with Dirty Faces? It's Wilson doing a breakdown of the history of Argentinian football. Well worth a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 That's on my to read list mimsy. Thanks for the reminder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladiesman345 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 The Griffmeister General does it again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 1 hour ago, mim731 said: Have you read Angels with Dirty Faces? It's Wilson doing a breakdown of the history of Argentinian football. Well worth a look. It's sat in a big pile of football books behind the new one from Michael Calvin, Michael Cox and Duncan Alexander. Wilson, along with Simon Kuper are easily my favourite football writers. Kupers books are bloody excellent... @Ladiesman345 you know live chat is banned right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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