Paid Members Jazzy G Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, Accident Prone said: I think there's a massive air of nostalgia regarding old folk and their love of 70s/80s WOS. I think if they actually watched a few of those old episodes, they would come out with the same "Well it looks faked and choreographed, innit?" thoughts that I have read in this thread. There was less spectacle and "entertainment" about the old WOS though. Kent Walton called it as if it was a legitimate sport and there was a lot less punch kick going on.It was a lot more about holds etc, so it was easier to suspend your disbelief. They weren't all chiseled pretty boys, but there was still no doubt these were two hard nuts that wanted to visit bodily harm upon each other. If you're in that moment you're more likely to let the more "choreographed" moments slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, jazzygeofferz said: There was less spectacle and "entertainment" about the old WOS though. Kent Walton called it as if it was a legitimate sport and there was a lot less punch kick going on.It was a lot more about holds etc, so it was easier to suspend your disbelief. They weren't all chiseled pretty boys, but there was still no doubt these were two hard nuts that wanted to visit bodily harm upon each other. If you're in that moment you're more likely to let the more "choreographed" moments slide. Have you watched a Johnny Saint match where it looked like he wanted to 'bodily harm' his opponent? Matches by him and his ilk, whilst still looking like a legit sporting contest, included some whacky sequences and moves that would fit in to any modern indy affair. But you do raise an interesting point of the presentation being all important; the reason why it's possible to suspend disbelief is due to the sporting atmosphere. If the production treats it seriously, so will the audience. Unless it's the lads like Big Daddy or Mick Mcmanus, most of if looks hokey to both non-wrestling fans and the population who are old enough to have watched WOS back in it's hey day. Show them Saint performing the spot where he ties himself into a ball and extends his hand for his opponent to grab right into a pinning combination and they'll probably have a similar reaction to that of the new WOS. I would imagine that the image of Big Daddy knocking Giant Haystacks over the top rope is WOS to most people, whereas the more light-hearted, technical based affairs would garner groans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Accident Prone said: Have you watched a Johnny Saint match where it looked like he wanted to 'bodily harm' his opponent? Matches by him and his ilk, whilst still looking like a legit sporting contest, included some whacky sequences and moves that would fit in to any modern indy affair. But you do raise an interesting point of the presentation being all important; the reason why it's possible to suspend disbelief is due to the sporting atmosphere. If the production treats it seriously, so will the audience. Unless it's the lads like Big Daddy or Mick Mcmanus, most of if looks hokey to both non-wrestling fans and the population who are old enough to have watched WOS back in it's hey day. Show them Saint performing the spot where he ties himself into a ball and extends his hand for his opponent to grab right into a pinning combination and they'll probably have a similar reaction to that of the new WOS. I would imagine that the image of Big Daddy knocking Giant Haystacks over the top rope is WOS to most people, whereas the more light-hearted, technical based affairs would garner groans. I was thinking more along the lines of Dynamite Vs Rocco. Yes, there were lighthearted things, but most of my recollections are of people trading holds, slow starts building to a crescendo but Walton always treating it with reverence. It didn't need three guys yammering on about how the wrestlers don't eat burgers or what's in their bumbag. Sometimes he'd go ages without having to say anything because the action in the ring would tell the story. If that's what you're used to watching and you tune into a show called "World Of Sport Wrestling" to be greeted by Alex Shane's screeching over wrestling which looks staged because of a poor selection of camera angles it's probably not going to resonate well. There've been some good matches this series in spite of the poor camera work and commentary, and if I could afford/get to one of the shows on the tour I'm sure it'll be a better show than they haveon the TV, but that TV show's presentation needs a serious overhaul if it manages to get another series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 In fairness to the Johnny Saint types, the "rolling yourself up in a ball" routine works specifically because of the limitations of Mountevans Rules. It's goofy, but it's still logical, and someone like Kent Walton on commentary would explain to you how it works. I said after the WOS pilot that they were never going to win over an old World of Sport fanbase because they opened with an in-ring promo. Nothing says "fake American wrestling" to an old-timer than in-ring promos and everyone talking too much. I'd like to know the rationale behind dropping the "World of Sport" name but still using the abbreviation, though, if there even is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 TNA, ROH, NXT, FWA it's all about having that catchy 3 letter monicker, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said: TNA, ROH, NXT, FWA it's all about having that catchy 3 letter monicker, isn't it? Yep. It's yet another way this show's biggest problem is its identity crisis - it can't make its mind up if it wants to be a TV product, or just every wrestling cliché imaginable. If they're not actively using the "World of Sport" branding (and using an abbreviation with more syllables than the phrase it's abbreviating!), they've just gone with whatever sounds most like a wrestling show. They should have just called it "ITV Wrestling" or "Saturday Night Wrestling". That's all it needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pier Six Brawler Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 There's no reason why wrestling can't get big ratings on ITV saturday evenings if presented correctly. Cookery shows were once thought of as nothing but daytime filler, then GBBO comes along and it's doing 16 million viewers in prime time. I'm sure a lot of people in the US in the early 80s laughed at the idea of wrestling doing big ratings on network TV as something that might have worked in the 50s but wouldn't work in the present day, but then along comes Hogan vs Andre and 33 million people are tuning in to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, BomberPat said: Yep. It's yet another way this show's biggest problem is its identity crisis - it can't make its mind up if it wants to be a TV product, or just every wrestling cliché imaginable. If they're not actively using the "World of Sport" branding (and using an abbreviation with more syllables than the phrase it's abbreviating!), they've just gone with whatever sounds most like a wrestling show. They should have just called it "ITV Wrestling" or "Saturday Night Wrestling". That's all it needs. The constantly trying to tie it back to the "world of sport" era by pretending this is a continuation of the stuff that Dickie Davies and Nick Owen used to throw over to after Saint & Greavesie had been running down the afternoon's football fixtures when in reality there were a couple of different promotions that had their stuff aired at the time. Anyway, my prediction for the rest of the season is that Grado wins the reverse battle royal on Saturday then Sysum and Joe Hendry or Bulldog Junior will negate Banks and Samuel's at ringside so they can have Grado as champion for the tour, because they've made him look like such a superstar throughout the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said: The constantly trying to tie it back to the "world of sport" era by pretending this is a continuation of the stuff that Dickie Davies and Nick Owen used to throw over to after Saint & Greavesie had been running down the afternoon's football fixtures when in reality there were a couple of different promotions that had their stuff aired at the time. Do they? Admittedly, I only watched the first two episodes and one a week or two ago, but they've seemed to shy away from all that - or at least be shockingly inconsistent with it. And it's the inconsistency that's the worst part, really - I don't mind if they were pretending to be a continuation of the Joint Promotions era if they were consistent about it, as that's something that's only really going to annoy the purists, but to play fast and loose with the idea is as confusing as everything else they do. The pilot at least made an effort to connect the new show with the old (I think they could/should have done more, but that's neither her nor there), whereas the series avoids using the name "World of Sport" yet, by the sounds of it, still wants to have some of that credibility/history rub off on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 Exactly - something I said about the first couple of episodes is that it speaks the language of WWE; weight given in pounds, the "Don't Try This At Home" videos using the phrase "sports entertainment", heel authority figures, backstage promos, and so on. As plenty of others have said, it all adds up to look too American for old-school World of Sport fans, too much like a cheap knock-off for WWE fans, and too hokey and panto for the casual viewer who needs to be won over to wrestling. They're all little things, but they all add up. And when combined with video editing that makes the whole show practically impossible to follow, they add up quickly. What's frustrating is that it's pre-taped, so you don't even get to see them learn from their mistakes as the show progresses - you seem them repeat them over and over again, week after week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 3 hours ago, jazzygeofferz said: TNA, ROH, NXT, FWA it's all about having that catchy 3 letter monicker, isn't it? They should get Johnny Nitro/Impact in, explain that he changes his name depending on the promotion he's in, and in this one, he'll be... Jonathan WOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I just don't know where WOS fits in these days. It's like the UK scene is doing well, so they figured it's a great time to bring WOS back, but that almost renders it pointless BECAUSE the scene is doing so well. There are so many other alternatives that WOS really doesn't offer much whatsoever. Everything that they are giving is done better somewhere else and certainly in a less annoying fashion. It's just pointless really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Your Fight Site Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 Does anywhere announce their wrestlers in kilos? Given we’re supposed to use metric units here in the UK. I imagine it would suffer from the same drawback as @scratchdj mentioned above where more people know how much they weigh in stones, but not kilos, but would be interesting to know if anywhere still does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted September 17, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2018 I believe PROGRESS sometimes announces continental Europe wrestler weights in kilos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 When I first got cable and saw AWA, Sith Ifricin Colonel DeBeers had his weight announced in Kilo's, that always stood out for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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