FUM Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I know they're normally always brilliant but the promo video guys were on even better than usual form last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Butternut Squash Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Oh dear. Â Bit of a car crash this company at the moment. The 3rd fall of the tag match was exciting but the rest of the show was dogshit. Â Wyatt's dead. Cesaro's dead. I've got as little clue as to what the fucks going on in the Rollins/Ambrose feud as the WWE seem to. Relying on Brock to jet in and save it all again. Feels like the wheels have been falling off ever since they put the belt on Bryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Re. the Network, I don't know what more they can really throw out there. It's all the PPVs, ever! All the Clashes. All the SNMEs (soon enough!). If I had decent internet, I'd never leave the house. It must be technical stuff that is stopping people signing up. It can hardly be the price. The problem I believe is this...  They have been pandering to children and teenagers for a number of years, particularly since their big push of John Cena around 2004. Now (and I might be wrong) most of those teenagers don't want to watch a 'dull' event from the 1980s even up to the mid 90s. ALOT of it was crap and the stuff that wasn't pales in comparison to what this generation expects of wrestling today.  Also if you look at those that do watch WWE consistently now. They are over saturated with massive amounts of wrestling on TV every week without the PPVs too. They know they can see the PPV main event a few weeks later on RAW or Smackdown (or even the next night in some cases). Why would I commit to paying even $10 a month for absolute shit events? Until the WWE start aiming it's television at a wider age range, putting on quality matches and angles on PPVs and making the PPVs mean something (i.e. not giving away money matches on free TV) nothing will change.  WWE are in a world of their own. They genuinely believe that they are bigger than they are and they massively overestimated the level of demand. Baring in mind most parents will buy a PPV here and there but they WON'T be pushed by their kids to pay a monthly subscription for a network that they (often) believe is 'that wrestling crap'.  It speaks volumes when Wrestlemania 30 was the first Wrestlemania I didn't see live since I was 10 years old. I go out of my way to watch Wrestlemania every year regardless of how often i've watched wrestling in the year. This year I didn't bother because it wasn't a must buy event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 21, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 21, 2014 So what does the wider age range in your view want? Squash matches? Â If anything the in-ribg content itself as regards long competitive "workrate" matches skews at a demographic older than children abd teens. If kids now are anything like I was at the start of the 90s a match over 10 minutes was too long unless its a bit special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 So what does the wider age range in your view want? Squash matches?  If anything the in-ribg content itself as regards long competitive "workrate" matches skews at a demographic older than children abd teens. If kids now are anything like I was at the start of the 90s a match over 10 minutes was too long unless its a bit special   I think the brand needs to cater for a the wider audience as a whole. For example, John Cena being on top needs to change. His face character is bland but turning him heel would sell mega amount of merchandise if done right (a cool, cocky heel). This would not be dissimilar to the NWO or Austin era when badass heels actually got people cheering. I would also drop the whole 'WWE Universe' idea and go back to WRESTLING! I feel that the older age range feel the use of WWE Universe and 'Superstar' to be rather patronising. We are all fans of the product and the guys and girls in the ring are wrestlers!  I think teenagers have evolved. I know teenagers who, due to the internet, are more 'smart' than 90% of my peers when I was in my early to mid teens. Ten minute squash matches were fine when I was a teenager but expectations have risen to such a high that they now expect PPV level matches on free TV. Unfortunately this has been given. I think a measured, thoughtful approach to managing feuds and matches - building upon solid foundations is one thing that stops the promotion reaching to a wider age range. I stopped watching WWE regularly when the start/stop era of pushes became apparent. This isn't about changing the matches (quality) but by giving me a reason to care.  As for the matches. I am not saying have squash matches. I am saying that if you give away all your top matches on free TV why should I ever pay to see a version for £15 a pop? There is no chase anymore. Flair used to have the Four Horsemen who would have multiple matches to try and stop the path of the face getting to Flair at the PPV. You can have competitive matches whilst still safeguarding the 'main event'. But then I still believe the market is too over saturated as it is two shows a week should be the maximum (RAW and NXT in my mind). Any more than that is overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaaad! Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Ugh. I thought you'd made a reasonable point about the WWE Network being somewhat at odds with marketing to kids, but you've ruined it with "John Cena/Cool heel/Austin and nWo". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUM Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Fucking hell, it's 2008 again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Ugh. I thought you'd made a reasonable point about the WWE Network being somewhat at odds with marketing to kids, but you've ruined it with "John Cena/Cool heel/Austin and nWo". You misunderstood. My point being that if Cena HAS to stay around then they need to utilise him more productively. His promo leading to his clash with The Rock a few years back (and reaction from the older age range) proved that when done right, he can be gold.  I personally don't think Cena is helping with an older audience. That said as with everything it has to be done right. Whether WWE could ever make such drastic changes to a character that can change people's minds and bring them back is another matter. In theory it's the best of a load of shit options. Ugh. I thought you'd made a reasonable point about the WWE Network being somewhat at odds with marketing to kids, but you've ruined it with "John Cena/Cool heel/Austin and nWo". You misunderstood. My point being that if Cena HAS to stay around then they need to utilise him more productively. His promo leading to his clash with The Rock a few years back (and reaction from the older age range) proved that when done right, he can be gold.  I personally don't think Cena is helping with an older audience. That said as with everything it has to be done right. Whether WWE could ever make such drastic changes to a character that can change people's minds and bring them back is another matter. In theory it's the best of a load of shit options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 So what does the wider age range in your view want? Squash matches? Â If anything the in-ribg content itself as regards long competitive "workrate" matches skews at a demographic older than children abd teens. If kids now are anything like I was at the start of the 90s a match over 10 minutes was too long unless its a bit special Over ten minutes is a bit too long for me now to be honest. Every company in wrestling today seems to have matches that go on forever. Â Personally I think the biggest problem in wrestling is the lack of atomic drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted July 21, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2014 So... They went with it then.   Ohhh my  (Rusev intro) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted July 21, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2014 With most though, it's not even a case of being marketed at kids. It's the stuff they're marketing in general. I'm 24 and I couldn't give half a shit about old eps of SNME or the 70s/80s stuff on there. It's aged terribly for anyone who doesn't have a pair of rose tinted glasses. Today's product is the best it's ever been, in-ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Today's product is the best it's ever been, in-ring. It's a double-edged sword. In terms of MOVEZ~ or overall technical blahblah etc it's better now than it as been, but the missing ingredient in a lot of it is making us give a toss, which devalues the hard work the wrestlers put in. I find that when people like Jim Ross advise young wrestlers to study stuff like Undertaker vs Michaels at WrestleMania 25, it's a bit redundant. Two new wrestlers could put on a match equally as proficient and it could play to silence and piss breaks because they're not Undertaker and Shawn Michaels with the years of history and crowd connection behind it. Â The big fuck-up WWE has done is make us take good matches for granted instead of giving us reasons to care. An episode of Raw could have three really (technically) good fifteen minute matches, and it'd be water off a windshield rather than any of them being special. If WWE has a Sheamus vs Christian match coming up that'll go about fifteen minutes on a pay-per-view in four weeks, they'll promote it by giving us three to seven other Sheamus vs Christian matches in the meantime, all of which will go about fifteen minutes as well. The TV shows are full of "PPV-quality" wrestling, which means the pay-per-views are full of Raw/Smackdown-quality wrestling. It's rare for anything to stand out on a PPV as better than what you get on the TV show now, which makes it harder to justify paying for. In the last year, how many matches that didn't involve a part-timer have felt big time in the build-up? Cena vs Bryan and the first Shield vs Wyatts are the only ones that come to mind for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Pitcos nailed it right on the head there. I love the network, but boy, as good as it was in ring, last nights show did feel like a bit of a chore and did have me asking "why do I have this service". Right now I only have time to watch the monthly PPVs, and if this is what I get, I may as well just download the occasional Mania. Shame really... I want it to succeed, but due to what has been described by Pitcos above is leaving me a little flat to be honest. Hopefully Summerslam will change that a bit.  Overall "meh" show. Though the opening tag was good (it breaks my heart to think that none of the guys in that match will probably ever go on to have a WWE World Title win in their future) and Ziggler's performance in the rumble was ace. Surprised Swagger was only beaten by countout.  The build for Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose is going swimmingly, though it's a shame they didn't have a match similar to HBK vs. Taker at GroundZero (i.e. just utterly spills out of control towards the ending leading to a no contest).  To me looks like Summerslam is going to be:  Lesnar vs. Cena Usos vs. Dust-Bros Miz vs. Ziggler Sheamus vs. Rusev Orton vs. Reigns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loligan Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 top to bottom, enjoyed the whole show. kneejerk reactions are in full fold i see, Wyatt's dead Cesaro's dead being my fav's get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicsGuy Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Feels like the wheels have been falling off ever since they put the belt on Bryan. Â More the fact that he got injured and had to be stripped of the title than them actually putting the belt on him. Â Show was alright. It was never going to be super duper with Summerslam next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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