UFC 168: Weidman vs Silva 2

[David]

I just want to see Weidman win decisively over a top opponent, or get to fuck basically.

 

I don't rate Munoz all that highly, and a decision win over Maia and wins over Tom Lawlor and Jesse Bongfeldt don't quite scream "champion" at me.

[pryko]

I just want to see Weidman win decisively over a top opponent, or get to fuck basically.

 

I don't rate Munoz all that highly, and a decision win over Maia and wins over Tom Lawlor and Jesse Bongfeldt don't quite scream "champion" at me.

if you want to see a decisive Weidman win, you should watch this fight he had one time with a guy called Anderson Silva. They've fought twice, but watch the first one where he knocks him out. That's a decisive win for Weidman

[David]

I just want to see Weidman win decisively over a top opponent, or get to fuck basically.

 

I don't rate Munoz all that highly, and a decision win over Maia and wins over Tom Lawlor and Jesse Bongfeldt don't quite scream "champion" at me.

if you want to see a decisive Weidman win, you should watch this fight he had one time with a guy called Anderson Silva. They've fought twice, but watch the first one where he knocks him out. That's a decisive win for Weidman

Aye, very good. Is one of your new year resolutions to be a smart cunt then?

[jimufctna24]

This is why I like David, he keeps things interesting and turns these threads into a debate.

 

Genuine question David

 

Have you seen anything in Weidman's game that suggests he is not the real deal? Fair play if you still have questions, but he succeeded against Anderson in almost every department, more so than the likes of Hendo, Chael and others.

 

Other than cardio, I see few questions marks in Weidman's game

[David]

This is why I like David, he keeps things interesting and turns these threads into a debate.

 

Genuine question David

 

Have you seen anything in Weidman's game that suggests he is not the real deal? Fair play if you still have questions, but he succeeded against Anderson in almost every department, more so than the likes of Hendo, Chael and others.

 

Other than cardio, I see few questions marks in Weidman's game

I've not really seen anything in his game to suggest he is the real deal, which is more important. As I said, a proper victory against someone like Vitor (not a default win because of a broken leg, or a win because someone is acting the cunt) will go a long way to legitimising his reign.

[jimufctna24]

For myself the first round of the second Anderson bout proved Weidman's skills

 

He knocked Anderson down, and unlike Chael and Hendo really hurt him on the ground. Anderson could sit below Chael for 20 minutes and not become seriously hurt, Weidman had Anderson in serious trouble.

[Supremo]

In the heat of the moment, I was really disappointed that Silva vs. Weidman hadn't ended, "cleanly," or, "legitimately." I thought it was a shame that Weidman wasn't going to get anywhere near the respect (or drawing ability!) that beating Amderson Silva for the second straight time deserved.

 

But now that the dust has settled I think it's really unfair for anyone to call Weidman's win a fluke or not, "proper." Ultimately, he beat Anderson by way of employing a technique that he recognised as potentially beneficial. He drilled something, put it into action, incapacitating his opponent and securing the victory. It's obviously not as spectacular as a knock out by way of a right hook or spinning kick or whatever, but it's still mightily impressive that he and his team managed to scout their opponent so well and drill the technique so perfectly that it resulted in Silva having that floppy leg. I definitely give him his props.

[ColinBollocks]

Sadly, the myth of Silva probably clouds a lot of what Weidman has accomplished, especially with the casual fan. The trouble with that leg check is, unlike a punch or a sub, Weidman wasn't looking to end it with that particular technique, rather stop the Muay Thai boxing of Silva by the negating the leg kick set up, so an argument can be made as to how fortuitous this was (again).

 

Personally, to denounce the accomplishments of Weidman is silly. When you simplify those two fights, he knocked out Silva twice and broke his leg. Not bad.

[Egg Shen]

David's just bitter because he predicted that Silva would breeze through Weidman with little effort.

 

But, seriously i kind of see Dave's point but you can't look past the fact that Weidman had beaten Silva x2 and Munoz in succession with relative ease, he was in no danger in any of those fights and that is impressive. A dominant win over Vitor will silence the doubters, but i dont think anyone can really critisize what hes done up until now. The only blip on the record is the turd he had with Demian Maia, but thats always been put down to taking the fight last minute (and Anderson had a stinker with Maia ), but very few people look good coming out of a fight with that guy.

[David]

I dunno, I just feel that Hendricks would have felt like a "proper" champion had he been given the nod against St-Pierre, but Weidman doesn't.

[pryko]

I just want to see Weidman win decisively over a top opponent, or get to fuck basically.

 

I don't rate Munoz all that highly, and a decision win over Maia and wins over Tom Lawlor and Jesse Bongfeldt don't quite scream "champion" at me.

if you want to see a decisive Weidman win, you should watch this fight he had one time with a guy called Anderson Silva. They've fought twice, but watch the first one where he knocks him out. That's a decisive win for Weidman

Aye, very good. Is one of your new year resolutions to be a smart cunt then?

Yeah. That was exactly it. Sorry you don't feel Weidman is a credible champion. It's unfortunate when someone beats the Greatest fighter of all time by knocking him out in the first fight, then dominates the same guy in the 2nd fight but still, you don't really like him and he's not got much name value so he isn't really a credible champion with any credible wins on his record.

[wandshogun09]

David's just bitter because he predicted that Silva would breeze through Weidman with little effort.

 

Maybe you have a point...

 

I'm picking Anderson to win via awesome destruction. Wiedman won't be coming out of this fight in a good way unfortunately.

 

 

I just want to see Weidman win decisively over a top opponent, or get to fuck basically.

 

I don't rate Munoz all that highly, and a decision win over Maia and wins over Tom Lawlor and Jesse Bongfeldt don't quite scream "champion" at me.

 

Why should he "get to fuck"? He's beating who's put in front of him, he can't do anymore than that. Even if you don't think he's a 'proper' champion or that his wins over Anderson weren't legit, I don't why there's such hostility against Weidman from some fans.

 

What was he meant to do exactly? He went in and fought Anderson Silva. That's his job. Anderson's clowning around in the first fight and the broken leg in the rematch, that's out of Weidman's control. Why he's getting all this backlash is kind of beyond me. I get that people are disappointed to see Anderson's reign come to an end, and I get that Weidman isn't exactly super likeable. But it's not like he's some big villain either. If he was a Frank Mir or Chael Sonnen or Ronda Rousey type personality, I'd understand the negativity a bit more, but he's not. There's nothing to massively like or dislike about him for me, I'm quite indifferent to him. He beat some good fighters, and one all-time great one, in his first 10 fights! Most MMA fighters would give their left bollock to have the first 10 wins he has.

 

On the second bit there, he's had 11 fights. Bringing up Jesse Bongfeldt is a bit harsh. That was Weidman's second UFC fight, and only his 6th MMA fight overall. He beat Alessio Sakara before that on short notice. He beat Maia on short notice. KO'd Munoz. And KO'd Anderson.

 

You don't think a guy like that is the "real deal" but you buy into Ben Askren with his decision wins over the likes of Jay Hieron and Nick Thompson. Askren's best win I'd say is Doug Lima, Weidman's is a KO of Anderson Silva! I'm not discrediting Askren at all, he's a very formidable talent, and Lima is an excellent fighter and a good win for Askren. But it baffles me how you can rate him as the real deal if you don't rate Weidman.

 

I dunno, I just feel that Hendricks would have felt like a "proper" champion had he been given the nod against St-Pierre, but Weidman doesn't.

 

It has to be down to bias then. If you'd consider Hendricks a worthy champion off a decision over GSP that can be debated the other way (and I had Hendricks winning but it can be argued), how can you not deem Weidman worthy when he's 2-0 over Anderson Silva, dominating almost every minute of both fights and knocking him out cold in one of them? It's crackers and the only explanation I can think of is that it's because you like Hendricks but not Weidman.

 

Over two fights, Weidman and Anderson fought for a combined 12 or so minutes. And in those 12 minutes, Weidman was dominant for at least 10, the first rounds of both fights. Take into account he also knocked Anderson out in the first fight, knocked Anderson down and nearly out again in the rematch, landed big shots on the ground in both fights, went for submissions, and checked a kick which left Anderson with a leg like a noodle.

 

Then stack that against what Anderson did to Weidman in those 12 minutes. Which was? Stuffed about two takedown attempts and landed some body kicks in the first fight. In the second fight he landed some jabs from the bottom and some leg kicks, one of which snapped his own shin like a Twiglet. It's pretty conclusive. Unless you count Anderson's taunting as an offensive technique, he did pretty much fuck all to Weidman over two fights.

 

And I'm an Anderson Silva fan. Much more a Silva fan than a Weidman fan. But facts are facts. He beat Anderson up for 10 minutes solid in the combined first rounds of both fights, and knocked him spark out in one of them. It's sad that the rematch ended how it did and we'll never know for sure how it would have ended without the injury, but you can't just conveniently forget the dominance Weidman showed in both fights just because you don't like how they ended. If it was luck the first time how do you explain him flooring Anderson again in the rematch? Anderson's face went completely blank. He recovered quick but he was hurt no two ways about it. Real flukes don't happen twice.

 

And Anderson wasn't clowning this time was he? Still got battered. And still very nearly got knocked out again in round one. And from a clinch position, no less, which is usually Anderson's sweet spot.

 

Sadly, the myth of Silva probably clouds a lot of what Weidman has accomplished, especially with the casual fan.

 

This is a massive part of it, I think. People are in denial. He was always going to lose at some point. As hard as it is to imagine right now, one day there will be some big sod smashing Cain Velasquez and maybe the next lot of UKFFers will be having this very same argument. Jon Jones, Jose Aldo, they'll all meet their match at some point. Fedor, Anderson, Machida, GSP, Penn, Liddell, Hughes - they've all had that unbeatable aura at one point or another, and they all lose in the end. Weidman might just be that guy for Anderson. The problem opponent. Like Dennis Hallman was for Matt Hughes, Edgar was for Penn, Shogun was for Machida and Marquez was for Pacquiao.

[Egg Shen]

spot on.

[jimufctna24]

I do actually think there is a clear blueprint to beat Hendricks. Stay on the outside, plenty of foot movement, and work behind the jab whilst mixing it up now and then. Proof? Watch rounds 3-5 of GSP vs Hendricks, it was clear that GSP was the more skillful fighter, and quicker, Hendricks just had more power, size and strength.

 

What blueprint is there for Weidman?

 

Great wrestling and grappling, advanced and varied striking and seemingly a decent athlete. Only cardio is still a question, the rest of his game so far have shown no real weaknesses.

 

I hope Belfort beats him, and with his hand speed and striking accuracy, he will always have a chance. But I will pick Weidman there by TKO in the middle rounds after a sustained grappling approach that I doubt Belfort or many 185ers can handle.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

The Vitor-Weidman fight is interesting to me because I can't immediately recall a time where Weidman's chin has been tested. I don't think Munoz landed a single strike on him, and the best thing Anderson hit him with was an elbow from the bottom in the second fight that caused a slight cut. If Vitor can connect on Weidman, a lot of questions could be answered in quick and potentially devastating fashion.

 

On the flipside, Vitor's wrestling game hasn't been tested that much in recent years. I believe it was a hole in his game in his earlier UFC run but these days, he blitzes most too fast for them to get a chance. Anthony Johnson and Jon Jones did it, but then again they're natural heavyweights.

 

It's actually far more interesting stylistically than either Anderson fight was. We knew going in that Silva's weakness was wrestling, and we thought he would have a massive advantage striking. The Vitor fight provides a lot to dissect and analyse- there's a lot to examine without getting into both men's excellent jujitsu skills.