UFC 168: Weidman vs Silva 2

[jimufctna24]

The Vitor-Weidman fight is interesting to me because I can't immediately recall a time where Weidman's chin has been tested. I don't think Munoz landed a single strike on him, and the best thing Anderson hit him with was an elbow from the bottom in the second fight that caused a slight cut. If Vitor can connect on Weidman, a lot of questions could be answered in quick and potentially devastating fashion.

The chin or durability of Weidman will not be in question if Belfort connects and knocks Weidman out cold, because Vitor could knock out Heavyweights with his power. It would tell us more about his striking defense. I would say his striking defense is pretty good, if you watch the first Anderson fight, he knew how to cover up so some of Anderson's strikes had limited effect.

[wandshogun09]

The thing with Weidman's cardio as well, we don't even know if it's even a typical problem for him. He tired quickly in the first Anderson fight but he was coming off a year long layoff and two shoulder surgeries. He had to be a bit rusty. The only other time his stamina looked bad was the Demian Maia fight, and Weidman took that on 11 days notice. He looked fine going into round two at UFC 168.

[Bus Surfer]

Off topic, but why are people still biting at David's comments? It's pretty obvious that he just goes against the grain just to be different and has done for some time. I just caught his "Weidman can get to fuck" as it was quoted by Wand. Standard David nonsense again.

 

Ignore works wonders.

[pryko]

Off topic, but why are people still biting at David's comments? It's pretty obvious that he just goes against the grain just to be different and has done for some time. I just caught his "Weidman can get to fuck" as it was quoted by Wand. Standard David nonsense again.

 

Ignore works wonders.

[David]

Yeah. That was exactly it. Sorry you don't feel Weidman is a credible champion. It's unfortunate when someone beats the Greatest fighter of all time by knocking him out in the first fight, then dominates the same guy in the 2nd fight but still, you don't really like him and he's not got much name value so he isn't really a credible champion with any credible wins on his record.

He scored that KO because Anderson was being a smart arse, plain & simple. He was being more of a smart arse than he's ever been in any fight I've ever seen him in, in fact.

 

Personally, to denounce the accomplishments of Weidman is silly. When you simplify those two fights, he knocked out Silva twice and broke his leg. Not bad.

Yeah, when you simplify them you can look at the results and come to a certain conclusion, but in MMA you can't do that. For anyone to simply say "well, he stopped Anderson twice" is trivialising an absolutely astounding set of events that surrounded those two title fights.

 

Why should he "get to fuck"? He's beating who's put in front of him, he can't do anymore than that. Even if you don't think he's a 'proper' champion or that his wins over Anderson weren't legit, I don't why there's such hostility against Weidman from some fans.

Obviously I don't mean he should literally "get to fuck", but after how his last two fights went I'm just really looking for a decisive win from him against a top five guy to cement him as champion. Also, I'm not blaming Weidman, he's only doing what he can in the circumstances, but his two title victories have left a bitter taste in the mouths of some fans. Believe it or not, the majority of MMA fans aren't out there saying "yup, the record reads 2 stoppages over Anderson Silva. Must mean he's the real deal", they're taking into account the circumstances as well, which clouds the issue for some people.

 

It looks as though he'll be facing Vitor in Las Vegas, meaning we'll have two guys fighting on an even platform. If he beats Vitor in a conventional fashion then we can move on from this weird little period in middleweight history and get back to business hopefully. That's all I want, and anyone who's seen my posts here in the past should know that I don't dislike Weidman because he's boring or bland. I just want him to verify his status as a champion with a "legit" win over a top five opponent.

 

You don't think a guy like that is the "real deal" but you buy into Ben Askren with his decision wins over the likes of Jay Hieron and Nick Thompson. Askren's best win I'd say is Doug Lima, Weidman's is a KO of Anderson Silva! I'm not discrediting Askren at all, he's a very formidable talent, and Lima is an excellent fighter and a good win for Askren. But it baffles me how you can rate him as the real deal if you don't rate Weidman.

I think you're misunderstanding me. When I talk about Weidman proving he's the real deal I mean as champion. It's beyond doubt that he's a top middleweight, but in my opinion (and the opinion of a lot of other fans) his two victories over Anderson with their weird circumstances aren't enough to cement him as the real deal as far as being champion goes. Wins over Maia & Munoz don't quite make the cut in my opinion as far as credibility for holding a belt goes.

 

It doesn't matter though, because we're going to see something happen either way as he'll face Belfort and either win or lose (surely the fight will end in a somewhat normal manner this time?!?!), and with him being the ranked #2 contender a win over him will put things back on track and we can move forward in a positive fashion.

 

Will there be fans out there who never accept Weidman as champion? Probably. I won't be one of them though, providing he beats Belfort.

 

As for the sly digs about me winding people up, give it a break. I've posted my opinion and told you why I think what I do. If you don't like what I say, stick me on ignore. God knows I've been tempted to do the same when I log in and all I read is posts about Meisha Tate's arse

[jimufctna24]

Off topic, but why are people still biting at David's comments? It's pretty obvious that he just goes against the grain just to be different and has done for some time. I just caught his "Weidman can get to fuck" as it was quoted by Wand. Standard David nonsense again.

 

Ignore works wonders.

Come on now, like I said it keeps things interesting. The rest of us more often than not agree on issues, at least David sparks some debates off.

[wandshogun09]

He scored that KO because Anderson was being a smart arse, plain & simple. He was being more of a smart arse than he's ever been in any fight I've ever seen him in, in fact.

 

He scored that KO because he threw the KO punch at the right time. And Anderson was fucking about just as bad against Maia. The only reason some people try to say he was way worse against Weidman is because Weidman made him pay. Maia wasn't equipped to deal with Anderson's arsing around, Weidman was. And again, there wasn't one taunt in the rematch and Anderson still got dominated and nearly KO'd.

 

Believe it or not, the majority of MMA fans aren't out there saying "yup, the record reads 2 stoppages over Anderson Silva. Must mean he's the real deal", they're taking into account the circumstances as well, which clouds the issue for some people.

 

I think how the fights ended is what's clouding the issue for some.

 

What about the circumstances where Weidman dominated 10 of the combined 12 minutes they fought? People are so hung up on how the fights ended that they ignore the two first rounds. No-one ever took it to Anderson quite like Weidman did in those two first rounds. Hendo took Anderson down and basically rode out the clock, hitting him with baby hammer fists. Chael did well in both fights early but he never looked like really hurting Anderson. Weidman took him down and it was all about the finish. He was landing big shots in both fights, went for a leg lock in the first, knocked him down and almost out in the second. This can't just be ignored. And it can't just be a fluke. It happened twice, regardless of how the fights finished. Anderson looked to have no answer for Weidman in the first rounds of both fights. And that would have to effect him mentally going into rest of the fight. It's not like Chael where he didn't have the power to hurt Anderson and had a fetish for getting triangle choked. Anderson couldn't sit back and rely on Weidman leaving his neck there for the choke and he couldn't take too many shots while waiting to slap on a submission, like he could with Chael.

 

The rematch was really unfortunate, I'd love to have seen a more conclusive ending. And the way it ended didn't do anyone any favours. But Weidman proved he's the real deal in my opinion. Even forgetting the KO and broken leg for a second, just looking at the two first rounds - if you can go in there with Anderson Silva for 10 minutes and beat him up the whole time, drop him, and give him no offence whatsoever - you're a legit bad motherfucker. That's a fact. Even if he'd have gone on to lose both fights, I'd still think he's a legit force.

 

It wasn't like Anderson was battering him in the first fight, then started dancing and got decked. And it wasn't like he was having his way in the rematch when he suffered the injury. In those cases I'd understand if people were questioning Weidman's legitimacy. But he was running away with both fights, and Anderson did nothing to him in 12 minutes. That doesn't happen by accident.

 

I think you're misunderstanding me. When I talk about Weidman proving he's the real deal I mean as champion. It's beyond doubt that he's a top middleweight, but in my opinion (and the opinion of a lot of other fans) his two victories over Anderson with their weird circumstances aren't enough to cement him as the real deal as far as being champion goes. Wins over Maia & Munoz don't quite make the cut in my opinion as far as credibility for holding a belt goes.

 

I honestly don't get what the champion bit matters really. Take the belt away and a KO win over Anderson Silva is still a KO win over Anderson Silva. It'd be no less impressive if it was a non-title fight. He went in there with the best fighter in MMA history and dominated him twice and walked out with his hand raised twice. And besides, why would Hendricks have proven himself more as a champion with a close points win over GSP, than Weidman would with two dominant performances and a KO over Anderson? Fighters winning fights is what should matter. Proving yourself as a fighter, the titles will come with success anyway. Chuck Liddell had proved himself as a great fighter long before he beat Randy Couture for the title.

 

Will there be fans out there who never accept Weidman as champion? Probably. I won't be one of them though, providing he beats Belfort.

 

This is the thing as well though, if Belfort beats Weidman that doesn't render Weidman's wins over Anderson a fluke or verify them either way. It's a totally different fight against a different fighter who brings different threats and different weaknesses. If Weidman smashes Vitor, the people who called his wins over Anderson flukes will still think that way. If he loses they'll try to spin it as proof he was a fluke artist. A two time one. Which would be bollocks.

 

I think whatever Weidman does, however many fighters he beats, it'll never be good enough for some. He's in the weird position of having ended a legend's reign which people weren't ready to see end yet. He's kind of a Larry Holmes to Anderson's Ali. And Holmes never quite got the acceptance either.

[Egg Shen]

the thing i love about the Weidman/Belfort fight (and it's more reason why i wanted to see Silva/Belfort II) is that Belfort's going into this thing in probably the most confident mood of his career...forget TRT for a minute, we have to accept that he's fighting at an acceptable level. But the guy is on a straight run of three straight KO's of top guys, and we've all noticed the change in Vitor's demeanour, all this talk of animals and being a lion, it's barmy shit but Vitor just seems 'on' these days, even the loss to Jones didn't dampen his spirits...he's a guy who's always struggled mentally in the past, i mean Vitor probably went through the part of his career where he should have been at his peak struggling in the MMA wilderness and yet he's just transformed himself into a consistent & devastating fighting machine everyone always knew he could be but would only show up every so often.

 

Obviously everyone's gonna question the Vegas factor going in, and if Weidman beats Vitor there's likely gonna be further questions aimed at both guys - Vitor can't do it unless he's in Brazil, Weidman beat a guy who aint on TRT. Question's will remain...

 

It's a fascinating one.

[jimufctna24]

Obviously everyone's gonna question the Vegas factor going in, and if Weidman beats Vitor there's likely gonna be further questions aimed at both guys - Vitor can't do it unless he's in Brazil, Weidman beat a guy who aint on TRT. Question's will remain...

I think the heat will more be on Belfort, I have never heard anyone question a winning performance based on whether their opponent is on TRT.

[wandshogun09]

Longo and Serra speak;

 

Ray Longo

 

On how the Weidman-Silva rematch ended

"I

[Supremo]

Longo and Serra are absolutely spot on. Particularly about that chess analogy.

 

The real irony in how loads of hardcore MMA fans have reacted is that these are the same people who supposedly appreciate the skill and technique of the sport and look down at what they refer to as, "JUST BLEED," fans. You know the type; those who defended Jon Fitch, talking at length about admiring the skill and ability he'd display, and then crying when big bad Dana sacked him.

 

They spent all of their time trying to paint themselves as somehow, "better," fans, superior to those who just want to be entertained by violence and knock outs, and yet when one of their favourites is beaten by way of excellent defensive technique, suddenly they're of the opinion that a more, "legitimate," method of victory is required. You know, something more definitive like a knock out or something.

 

And they're Jon Fitch fans. Jon Fitch. Fitch.

[wandshogun09]

Longo and Serra are absolutely spot on. Particularly about that chess analogy.

 

The real irony in how loads of hardcore MMA fans have reacted is that these are the same people who supposedly appreciate the skill and technique of the sport and look down at what they refer to as, "JUST BLEED," fans. You know the type; those who defended Jon Fitch, talking at length about admiring the skill and ability he'd display, and then crying when big bad Dana sacked him.

 

They spent all of their time trying to paint themselves as somehow, "better," fans, superior to those who just want to be entertained by violence and knock outs, and yet when one of their favourites is beaten by way of excellent defensive technique, suddenly they're of the opinion that a more, "legitimate," method of victory of required. You know, something more violent like a knock out or something.

 

And they're Jon Fitch fans. Jon Fitch. Fitch.

 

[shit stirring/]I think he's talking about you David[/shit stirring]

 

This isn't aimed at David but I really hate some of the MMA fan snobbery. Some of Leonard Garcia's fights are among my favourites to watch, what of it? I'm not ashamed to admit it and I couldn't give less of a fuck if people call me a 'Just Bleed' fan because of it.

 

I watch MMA like I watch any other TV show or sport, to be entertained. It's Mixed Martial Arts. It's the mix that I like most about it. I love that on any given show you can see a technical kickboxing battle, a grappling chess match, a clinch war, a wild crazy brawl, or sometimes a mix of all of that.

 

I bet there were some twats sitting there during awesome fights like Hunt vs Bigfoot, Hendo vs Shogun and Wand vs Stann - trying their hardest not to enjoy it and boring their mates about the lack of technique or cardio or whatever. Trying to hide the fact that, really, they're on the edge of their seat just like everyone else is. Just so they can be one of those superior technique dullards. Then when a Jake Shields or Jon Fitch is lying there in the missionary position for 15 minutes, these fans are bellyaching that people don't appreciate the technique. And if you say it was boring or shit they hit you with the old 'if you don't like it go and watch Kimbo's street fights on YouTube.'

 

It's so they can tell you that they're a 'real fan' because they appreciate "the intricacies of details of manouvres that you don't even know the names of" (trademark - Frank Mir).

[Supremo]

Yep. They're exactly the fans I'm talking about. Machida will have a boring fight with Dan Henderson and it will fucking suck balls, but they'll harp on about how if you didn't enjoy it then you don't understand or appreciate the technique and skill. You see, they're, "real fans," because they appreciate the art of being able to defeat an opponent without taking any damage. Unless it's Chris Weidman managing to defeat the greatest of all time by checking a fucking leg kick. Then all of a sudden, because it's Anderson Silva who they like, the art counts for nothing and Chris won't be a real champion until he beats someone decisively. Brilliant.

 

If you're one of those, "real fans," then Weidman's victory should be one of your favourites ever. He took zero damage, dominated throughout, and then managed to win without even using an offensive manoeuvre! As a, "real fan," you couldn't ask for more!

[jimufctna24]

I love a good brawl, and a good show of technique, and neither have to be exclusive. Garcia I disliked as his style distorted idiot judges into thinking he was more effective than he actually was, but it was not his fault the judges were morons I guess.

 

Hunt vs Foot and Wand vs Stann were adrenaline rush brawls, I guess you could call them sloppy at times, so there is a double standard in relation to Garcia, but the difference is I was gripped watching those fights. Plus, no bad judges call ruined my viewing.

 

MMA fans can be a curious bunch, if you watch prelim fights on Youtube the live comments are mildly disturbing to see the least. The stereotype of the MMA fan is warranted in that case.

[Ghostface1982]

Yep. They're exactly the fans I'm talking about. Machida will have a boring fight with Dan Henderson and it will fucking suck balls, but they'll harp on about how if you didn't enjoy it then you don't understand or appreciate the technique and skill. You see, they're, "real fans," because they appreciate the art of being able to defeat an opponent without taking any damage.

Some "fans" do watch certain fights and don't appreciate the technique though. It's just as common as what you are suggesting. Boring is subjective.

 

I love MMA purely because it has a bit of everything, I love a good brawl just as much as I love a ground battle between a couple of top BJJ guys.

 

MMA fans can be a curious bunch, if you watch prelim fights on Youtube the live comments are mildly disturbing to see the least. The stereotype of the MMA fan is warranted in that case.

Isn't that just the youtube comments in general though?