The Official UKFF RAW Thread...

[Whiskey_Jim]

I find it mad that people have been blind to the long term game they are playing,The story has been built brilliantly leading to this showdown with Triple H.

 

Wasn't it supposed to be CM Punk vs HHH at Wrestlemania though? It's hardly a long term game when they've changed their plans due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

There is no long term plan for Bryan, they seem to be throwing shit at a turnbuckle and seeing what sticks. The half arsed joining the Wyatts for a week was mental. It served no purpose for Bryan or The Wyatts.

 

I also don't think that the Bryan HHH match has been built particularly well. Hunter seems to have had a whale of a time at his smarmy best with lines like

 

'Solid B star'

'great little worker'

and of course

'you're not worthy of me'

 

Bryans response has been to stamp his feet over and over and say I am so, I am so worthy of you. Listen to the fans. I am so.

I think you should go back to the other forum.

 

Cutting edge stuff and highly original.

Bravo sir.

If you're going to moronic comments like those then you dont deserve anyones A-Game.

 

If you like there are more than a few people on here that can explain to you the difference between a heel and a babyface.

[visitor from another forum]

I find it mad that people have been blind to the long term game they are playing,The story has been built brilliantly leading to this showdown with Triple H.

 

Wasn't it supposed to be CM Punk vs HHH at Wrestlemania though? It's hardly a long term game when they've changed their plans due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

There is no long term plan for Bryan, they seem to be throwing shit at a turnbuckle and seeing what sticks. The half arsed joining the Wyatts for a week was mental. It served no purpose for Bryan or The Wyatts.

 

I also don't think that the Bryan HHH match has been built particularly well. Hunter seems to have had a whale of a time at his smarmy best with lines like

 

'Solid B star'

'great little worker'

and of course

'you're not worthy of me'

 

Bryans response has been to stamp his feet over and over and say I am so, I am so worthy of you. Listen to the fans. I am so.

I think you should go back to the other forum.

 

Cutting edge stuff and highly original.

Bravo sir.

If you're going to moronic comments like those then you dont deserve anyones A-Game.

 

If you like there are more than a few people on here that can explain to you the difference between a heel and a babyface.

 

You not being one of them.

[WWFChilli]

You should both go to the other forum.

Edited February 27, 2014 by WWFChilli

[Chest Rockwell]

Boring conversation with Whiskey Jim

 

 

Why don't you both take some enforced time off for tit quoting and shit posting.

[Vamp]

secondly the fans think they're smart to the business and have a huge sense of entitlement and a huge lack of patience, on the one hand they're entitled to a good show when they pay for their live ticket but they're not entitled to dictate the story

 

Again, don't agree. If we follow that rationale, the crowd were hugely entitled when they got behind Cena and Batista prior to their big, first-time title wins at Mania. They were hugely entitled when they got behind Austin for WM13.

 

This is a case of someone getting over, and the crowd wanting so badly for them to win. I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

Wrestling carries on. What exactly does Bryan do when he wins the title?

 

Why is that an issue? There have been plenty of big moments that have been built up for, that we didn't know what was going to happen afterwards because we didn't care. Who cared who Cena, Batista and (without hindsight) Benoit were going to face after their big WM moment, and what they were going to do? Who cared what Warrior was going to do after he won the belt off Hogan? The moments existed for their own sake, because it's Wrestlemania, for crying out loud - it's what everything builds to.

 

This is a classic storyline of a face chasing a goal, fighting for that big, culminating moment on the big stage, and everyone cheering for him for that moment. I don't see why so many people on here are having trouble with the idea of Bryan doing what so many have done before him.

 

I might be wrong on this but when the people got behind Cena, Austin and Batista I don't remember audience asking for refunds when they didn't win a title every night. Batista was over like like a metaphor at a literature convention but he didn't win in the elimination chamber at New years revolution because that wasn't the story. It would have been a sucky story.

 

As for the who cares stuff? I'd imagine the people who run the company, Daniel Bryan himself and anybody who's genuinely a fan of him probably should. Funny you should bring up benoit as he is a fantastic counter argument to your whole point here. Yeah he had his great big moment in the sun. Then what? A great rematch, better than the first in my estimation, but a rematch because what the hell do they do with him? They clearly didn't know. He got given Kane while the more interesting HBK and HHH had what actually ended up being q very confusing cell match. I have three memories of Benoit's title run, the win, the bit where they tried to make him Bret Hart because hell what do you do with him, and the moment where he was all dejected talking about how he beat Kane in a dull nothing title match that made both him and the title irrelevant. Then he was just killing time for Orton to take the belt. All that momentum wasted. That career defining moment wasted. Same with Warrior really. It was easier for Batista and Cena because they could jump brands soon after.

 

As for the moments having to happen at wrestlemania, they didn't always used to. Hogan didn't win the title at the first wrestlemania, Foley won the title on a random episode of raw, the beer bath which is both a character defining moment and a clip that just will not fuck off happened on a raw, in fact a surprising amount of Austin's big moments didn't happen at wrestlemania. The deadly game tournament, arguably a big moment for the rock, happened at survivor series. Brock had character defining moments when he obliterated Hogan on a smackdown and beat the rock at summerslam. Punk became the number two without having anything approaching a career defining moment at wrestlemania. I bring this up partly because you fell into the rhetoric about career defining moments only happening at wrestlemania and because they shouldn't. Bryan should have had an important character moment by now, not winning the title, and he hasn't.

 

Punk's the biggest example of it. His win was big it went pair shaped for a few months and it eventually took off in 2012 when he turned heel. From Money In the Bank 2011 to the Summer of 2012, he feuded with the likes of the Miz, Dolph Ziggler, Chris Jericho and Del Rio, put Triple H over, had a feud with Kevin Nash which went nowhere and never main evented a PPV until he turned heel and was rubbing shoulders with Cena. Money in the Bank was a memorable moment. What came after was a big load of fuck all until Heyman and Punk did the Bockwinkle and Heenan act.

 

I get that, but does that mean that, just because what came afterwards was fuck-all, the big, memorable moment wasn't worth anything in itself? I agree that, should they book Bryan to win the belt (and I'm not necessarily saying they should), they should book a programme for him straight afterwards instead of doing nothing with him, but I don't think the lack of an idea for a plan should be grounds in itself for not doing it, which is what I'm getting at with Vamp's point. And besides, who's to say they haven't got anything lined up?

 

That's not what I said at all. In fact you seem to agree with me. I was saying they shouldn't have given him the belt yet because they obviously don't have plans for him, which really was pretty clear from me saying the Wyatt family might be in a better position following their wrestlemania programme with Cena.

 

Although thinking about it I suppose they still might not have anything for him post wrestlemania. If they booked him in a triple threat then they've got the rematch. Orton vs Bryan would be about as fresh as a dead daisy. They've got Batista vs Bryan I suppose. Brock will have just lost to undertaker which you'd think would rule him out for a bit. Although it'd be fine by the summer I guess. Bryan shouldn't have his first defence against Cena for the reasons that nobody should. I'm suggesting the Wyatt family but they might not be ready. Reigns has to win the title the first time he challenges for it, unless they want to Ryback him. Punk is sitting cross legged on the pavement while people give him loose change to go to the doctors. How about a rematch of the triple threat and then a match with Kane and then Bryan can job to Reigns at summerslam! That'll be a memorable reign. Then within a year he might be on velocity.

 

Actually having just typed that it just occured to me, how great would it be if Batista won with his screw everybody attitude and fan hostility, had a title reign where he beat Bryan, Cena and Lesnar with the fans behind Brock just because they want the animal to lose and then finally Batista comes up short against Roman Reigns?

Edited February 27, 2014 by Vamp

[Chris B]

There is massive intrigue over how they handle Bryan following this title win when he gets it. Do you feud him with Orton again? Kane? Turn Batista? Put him over Cena (again)? Big Show? Everyone has in their head how he should win the belt. Its much harder to think what WWE do when he wins it.

 

Personally, I'd like to see him go on a monster-slaying run for a while, with HHH throwing guys he thinks will overwhelm him, with Bryan sometimes winning by the skin of his teeth. As a result, heel Batista straight after Mania, followed by Kane would be fine by me (although you wouldn't want to damage Batista too much, but some backfired screwjob attempts could do the job). After that, I'd honestly love to see a Bryan/Lesnar feud and match at Summerslam or so. I think it could be up there with Guerrero/Lesnar. If you have Bryan win that, you have him drop it soon after to someone like Bray Wyatt or someone to build up to Reigns challenging.

[Vamp]

Kane would be a horrible second title defence feud for Bryan. I love Kane but that match reeks of midcard. Bryan needs that at initial momentum after the title win maintained for as long as possible. A feud with Kane really doesn't achieve that.

[d-d-d-dAz]

They need to turn Batista ASAP, don't they?

 

Not only does he not illicit the same energy as Cena, to the point where the boo's aren't really and issue with Cena (Batista's reaction seems like a mix of apathy, anger and disappointment at the fact that he's still not Daniel Bryan), but he really doesn't handle it very well. His twitter page is embarrassing.

 

If you're going to soldier on in the face of hatred, you don't fall back on pseudo-new age bollocks like 'i'm a dream chaser', 'only got time for positive people' and calling the fans that boo you idiots. If Batista was still moving the needle in terms of viewers/ratings, then they could have moved forward provided that he carried on handling it with grace and Cena's usual 'GEE-WHIZ! YOU GUYS!' routine. Not chucking your toys out of the pram.

 

You could tell from his mannerisms recently that he's not enjoyed it one bit.

 

For a guy i've always assumed was cool as a cucumber, he seems a bit precious about what the live crowd think of him.

Edited February 27, 2014 by d-d-d-dAz

[LaGoosh]

Batista's never been good at handling negative crowd reactions. When the ECW fans tore Cena to shreds Cena worked with it to make an even better atmosphere and enjoyed it, when the ECW fans tore Batista to shreds he got frustrated, threw a paddy and swore at them. He's always been delicate. He probably had it all built up in his head that he would be the returning hero, saving the WWE fans from the puny girly-men who they are forced to watch these days...the business has changed a lot since Batista left and he didn't realise that his act just doesn't cut the mustard these days. He's not fit to wipe Cena's arse in my opinion.

Edited February 27, 2014 by LaGoosh

[King Pitcos]

It'd be funny if Batista got desperate to try and get the crowds on his side. Imagine him coming out in Hurricane Helms' PG SUX t-shirt and pointing to it, and everyone there just shaking their head. "We've moved on, Dave! Daniel Bryan's PG as fuck and we love him!"

 

Actually, at some point, Batista's going to beat the shit out of Bryan to end a Raw and stand there smug, doing the YES cheerleading to deafening boos, isn't he? That's going to be a great moment.

Edited February 27, 2014 by King Pitcos

[The King of Old School]

Thinking about Bryan & Mania, i don't actually want to see a triple threat, a WMX scenario would work better IMO.

 

Have Bryan beat HHH in say the 3rd match or so with the stipulation that if he wins he faces the winner of the Title match, and then have Batista destroy Orton in say the 6th Match of the night, then that sets up Batista/Bryan to close the show for the belt with Bryan finally going over.

 

Works for me anyway

[Carbomb]

As for the who cares stuff? I'd imagine the people who run the company, Daniel Bryan himself and anybody who's genuinely a fan of him probably should. Funny you should bring up benoit as he is a fantastic counter argument to your whole point here. Yeah he had his great big moment in the sun. Then what? A great rematch, better than the first in my estimation, but a rematch because what the hell do they do with him? They clearly didn't know. He got given Kane while the more interesting HBK and HHH had what actually ended up being q very confusing cell match. I have three memories of Benoit's title run, the win, the bit where they tried to make him Bret Hart because hell what do you do with him, and the moment where he was all dejected talking about how he beat Kane in a dull nothing title match that made both him and the title irrelevant. Then he was just killing time for Orton to take the belt. All that momentum wasted. That career defining moment wasted. Same with Warrior really. It was easier for Batista and Cena because they could jump brands soon after.

 

But it's not a counter argument, because, as I say, that WM moment was worthwhile in itself. The booking afterwards, while related, is still a separate matter, and not a justification for why it shouldn't have happened. There's always going to be an afterwards, and it's almost always going to be a bit of a comedown after a big climax. There are any number like that - Macho after WM8, Davey Boy after SS92, Batista and Cena after SS21 (the roster was almost as threadbare as it was after WM20), Eddy after No Way Out, etc.

 

As for the moments having to happen at wrestlemania, they didn't always used to. Hogan didn't win the title at the first wrestlemania, Foley won the title on a random episode of raw, the beer bath which is both a character defining moment and a clip that just will not fuck off happened on a raw, in fact a surprising amount of Austin's big moments didn't happen at wrestlemania. The deadly game tournament, arguably a big moment for the rock, happened at survivor series. Brock had character defining moments when he obliterated Hogan on a smackdown and beat the rock at summerslam. Punk became the number two without having anything approaching a career defining moment at wrestlemania. I bring this up partly because you fell into the rhetoric about career defining moments only happening at wrestlemania and because they shouldn't. Bryan should have had an important character moment by now, not winning the title, and he hasn't.

 

It's not falling into any rhetoric - it could apply to any event, not just WM, but the point under discussion at the moment and the storyline currently being touted on TV is Bryan going to WM and having his big moment. The crowd wants it to happen, and it's not just a case of smarks any more. Regardless of what we think of the crowd's behaviour, the fact is they're being vocal enough about whom they're behind; Daniel Bryan is over, and they want him in a big match at Mania.

 

That's not what I said at all. In fact you seem to agree with me. I was saying they shouldn't have given him the belt yet because they obviously don't have plans for him, which really was pretty clear from me saying the Wyatt family might be in a better position following their wrestlemania programme with Cena.

 

Although thinking about it I suppose they still might not have anything for him post wrestlemania. If they booked him in a triple threat then they've got the rematch. Orton vs Bryan would be about as fresh as a dead daisy. They've got Batista vs Bryan I suppose. Brock will have just lost to undertaker which you'd think would rule him out for a bit. Although it'd be fine by the summer I guess. Bryan shouldn't have his first defence against Cena for the reasons that nobody should. I'm suggesting the Wyatt family but they might not be ready. Reigns has to win the title the first time he challenges for it, unless they want to Ryback him. Punk is sitting cross legged on the pavement while people give him loose change to go to the doctors. How about a rematch of the triple threat and then a match with Kane and then Bryan can job to Reigns at summerslam! That'll be a memorable reign. Then within a year he might be on velocity.

 

Actually having just typed that it just occured to me, how great would it be if Batista won with his screw everybody attitude and fan hostility, had a title reign where he beat Bryan, Cena and Lesnar with the fans behind Brock just because they want the animal to lose and then finally Batista comes up short against Roman Reigns?

 

Things aren't as bad as in 2003 - there seems to be much more of a main event scene than before. I agree that Orton/Bryan wouldn't be fresh, but is there any way they could freshen it up? Have they had any gimmick matches they could use?

 

My first choice would've been, as Chris B said, heel Batista. If anything, he seems to be on course to be the most natural choice for that if Bryan does win the belt.

 

If they plan things out properly, they could have a decent run of opponents for him - Batista, Orton (with gimmicks), Triple H, Cena, then, in no particular order, Cesaro (if his stock has picked up like people expect it to), Lesnar, The Rock, Wyatt, Kane, Sheamus, Del Rio, Big Show, maybe even Christian. But I can't imagine his run would be that long, anyway.

[Chest Rockwell]

There is no way to freshen up anything with Orton in it, ever. He is fucking poison. I hate him so much.

[deathrey]

He is past boring, I don't think there is anything they could do with him to make him interesting. I can't think of a single thing. I live in hope that he will get his third wellness strike and piss off for good.

[Scott Malbranque]

The only times I found Orton interesting or remotely endearing was when he did that RNN thing, when he did the jumping splits mid match again Menry and Christian, and also during his beatdown of Christian following the MITB 2011 encounter when he made that insane Bushwhacker face before delivering an RKO to said opponent on the announce table.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Scott Malbranque