Raw 8/1/13 Discussion Thread

[d-d-d-dAz]

I probably worded it incorrectly. To me, they look like a cheap version of their own gimmick. Out in the bright lights where you can see everything, and you're not distracted by the more suitable settings, Rowans costume (for example) looks like it was put together by a GCSE student with only a vague understanding of the brief.

 

Within the framework of their own gimmick, I still think they look low rent.

[Arch Stanton]

I don't want to see any established names joining them. It should be new, fresh weirdos. I've got it stuck in my head that the Briscoes should join them, which is a bastard, because I still think it's unlikely to happen.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Chris Hero looks like a tramp who can't afford a gym membership so works out by chucking drugged teenage girls about. He'd do.

[Arch Stanton]

I did consider him for those very reasons, but I don't know if they have other plans for him or not. He's pretty well established in his own right on NXT, although he still looks miles off making the main roster in his current state.

[d-d-d-dAz]

He's got less than 18 months until he's 35. If he's not ready for the main show within the next year, then surely he's in a bit of bother.

[Arch Stanton]

Yeah, you'd think so. He's one that I'm still a bit surprised that they bothered with, but they probably thought that he'd be able to get himself in shape by now. At least his look would fit with the Wyatt Family.

 

Throwing him out there in a scabby wifebeater with the Wyatts would bring his career full circle actually.

[d-d-d-dAz]

The depressing thing with Hero is that he started young, too.

 

33 isn't a big deal if you're Titus O'Neal or someone. One of the guys who come into wrestling after professional sports/academics/any other profession didn't work, at about 25 - 29.

 

Chris Hero's wearing fifteen years of bumps and bruises on his shoulders (and, probably more accurately, his hips, back and knees). You'd imagine if they called him up next year, within 6 months of working the WWE schedule he'd start falling apart.

[PowerButchi]

Ziggler's only been a "face" for about 2 weeks, and he still needs to get away from AJ and Big E. Maybe Big E costs him the match on Sunday, that'll expedite things.

 

They could do without him cutting a promo during a fucking match, though. Whoever came up with that idea needs a slap.

 

Also, he has the worst catchphrase ever. He'd be better off using a Kinky John one and interacting with the crowd: "Get your pants off | We're humans, not insects"

 

When someone turns you need a real and strong reason why. Not just getting their head kicked off. Failing that, show some likeable features, he shows none. Also, the WWE house style likes big bumping heels and offensive powerhouse babyfaces. Ziggler's offensive arsenal is shite. And most importantly, he shouldn't have hair like super noodles.

 

When people were wanking themselves off going "ZIGGLER NEEDS TO BE A FACE!" I held back. He's an average promo, not good enough offensively, too good a bumper, and just isn't likeable. He's close to sending me towards vindication. And I can be so smug.

[hallicks]

When someone turns you need a real and strong reason why. Not just getting their head kicked off. Failing that, show some likeable features, he shows none. Also, the WWE house style likes big bumping heels and offensive powerhouse babyfaces. Ziggler's offensive arsenal is shite. And most importantly, he shouldn't have hair like super noodles.

 

When people were wanking themselves off going "ZIGGLER NEEDS TO BE A FACE!" I held back. He's an average promo, not good enough offensively, too good a bumper, and just isn't likeable. He's close to sending me towards vindication. And I can be so smug.

 

There's work to be done, for sure. Wouldn't class him as a face yet anyway, because as you say, his character hasn't changed and he hasn't really done anything to be more likeable. But isn't that exactly how Miz turned face, he had people that cheered him regardless, and once he finished feuding with Kofi, that was it. There was no reason, it was just 'cuz. And he's still a thoroughly unlikable tosser, far more irritating than Ziggler. Miz TV is a total fucking train wreck every time it's on because he acts like such a chump.

 

I would say "give him more time" but WWE creative is usually the definition of insanity in these cases, where they do the same thing over and over and wonder why the result doesn't change. Fair enough if you don't rate him, but I think he was getting a bit stale as a heel. I think that WWE having such a dearth of babyfaces in the upper midcard is reason enough to turn him. Especially when the nearest alternative is The Miz.

 

He should just get a fully blown mullet and be done with it.

[Loki]

When people were wanking themselves off going "ZIGGLER NEEDS TO BE A FACE!" I held back.

 

I don't remember people ever saying that, strangely - he's built to be a heel, as you say. I can't see any need for turning good heels face. He's one of my favourite of the current WWE lot to watch actually wrestling. Like a lot of guys who's act is built around in-ring performance though, familiarity breed contempt.

[gadge]

Ziggler has been a heel forever and was getting big cheers whenever they teased getting a proper push going. You can't blame them for trying a face turn, and the Del Rio match at Payback was compelling as a start.

 

What you can blame them for is everything since the first couple of revenge attacks. Actually working out how to push him is very much in progress, clearly. They do still have time to get it right though. We'll see more with the PPV match, obviously.

[King Pitcos]

When people were wanking themselves off going "ZIGGLER NEEDS TO BE A FACE!" I held back.

 

I don't remember people ever saying that, strangely - he's built to be a heel, as you say. I can't see any need for turning good heels face.

Loads of people were saying it. Don't remember if there was much of it on here, but the Internet was full of it. Ziggler wasn't a good heel anyway. What did he ever do that made you (or anyone) boo him? The only big reactions he's ever got are babyface ones, even when he was a heel. He was either unable or unwilling to portray an effective baddie, and wilfully geared his routine to impressing at least some of the audience. So he was turned. But it seems to be the case that he's just unable to portray any effective character. He might find his feet, and should be given more time to do so, but as it stands, WWE have landed themselves with a bloke at the top of the card who isn't up to the job.

 

It probably doesn't help that he's programmed against Dull Rio, but even that's no excuse -- unlike The Miz when he turned, or 90% of the roster, they do actually have a feud with substance and angles. For a few weeks, Ziggler had key non-wrestling TV time, as if to say "show us what you can do besides flopping around the ring after taking another wrestler's moves." And he's gone "well, fuck all really."

[Arch Stanton]

Pitcos said pretty much everything I was about to say re Ziggler. A significant portion of the audience were craving a face turn for Dolph because for the longest time, he seemed to be going out of his way to impress them. Smarky bullshit like having #HEEL written on his gear, making jokes and basically being a babyface on his WWE Twitter account and never being willing to show his arse (figuratively) to get heat didn't sit well with me. I always said he was a shit heel for those reasons. Basically, he was desperate to be a cool heel and was trying way too hard for that to ever be possible.

[The Reverend]

They need to bring back Spivey for a one time speaking part in the Waylon Mercy role as part of the family.

[Scott Malbranque]

One of my fondest memories of Waylon Mercy is when he DDT'd a chap on the outside and told the ref he was 'an innocent man'. I'd love to see that match again. I was about 16, and watched it with my best mate, and we became Waylon Mercy fans for life after that moment.