Dirty Eddie Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 In short, Rock is entertaining when he's being a cunt to people. He's not entertaining when he's all smiles and jokes. Â I think that's why I enjoyed his "Hollywood" heel run the most of anything he's done. He was such a smug insufferable cunt. Exactly. Â And the thing is, back when he first got over with all the silly catchphrases and what-not, it was while he was a heel in the Nation and then in the Corporation. The reason people popped like fuck and "sang along with The Champ" when he turned face was because he'd refused to let people do that as a heel for so long. He didn't really come up with naff, unfunny catchphrases as a face, he just re-purposed all his silly heel shtick - and aimed it at heels. Â Â Hollywood Rock was like the old Nation days again, with him making up silly shit like calling Goldberg 'Whisker-biscuit'. He was completely delusional and self-obsessed, and it was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I always question why some people just persevere watching something they hate so much. I stopped watching Raw once I found I actually hated over 50% of it, but god speed anyone who enjoys the current product. I really suggest others should consider doing the same. I'm much happier watching Stevie Richards chat to Rob Feinstein for 3 hours. Â Definitely this. It was only 3-4 years ago that I was getting worked up about Randy Orton's botched pushes, but wrestling's a lot more fun when you only watch the stuff that appeals to you. It's not like when you support a shit football team with dickhead owners, but you have to keep going every week because you can't bring yourself to cheer anyone else, and for fear that the club's going to fold without your support. Just find something else along the same lines that you actually enjoy, whether that be TNA, UFC, or just watching DVDs of wrestling from a time when you actually liked it. Â Personally, forums are my way of keeping up to date with the sport, so I can return to watching when it sounds good, and avoid returning when it sounds shit. People on here generally have quite good taste when it comes to mainstream wrestling, so I find it's a reliable method. Â For the time being I'm happy watching the PPVs and waiting for something on the weekly shows to grab my nuts, but I doubt it will ever happen. Â These, too. There's a good cross-section of opinion on here, and I generally know which posters share my general taste in wrestling, so if something happens that gets the thumbs up from them, I'll check it out. In the past year, it's only really been stuff involving The Rock, Lesnar and The Shield angle that I've been motivated enough to look up on youtube, but at least the facility's there. It's pretty easy to stay in the loop enough with wrestling so that you don't miss anything great (not that I'm expecting that to happen anytime soon, either) - I managed it just when Austin and the nWo were catching fire, and that was before youtube and online forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted February 18, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 18, 2013 In short, Rock is entertaining when he's being a cunt to people. He's not entertaining when he's all smiles and jokes. Â I think that's why I enjoyed his "Hollwyood" heel run the most of anything he's done. He was such a smug insufferable cunt. Â Plus his entrance music and video was fantastic as well. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I personally cannot, and will never be able to understand people ragging on the Rock... he owes Wrestling nothing. Apart from mongs, the reason people moan about Rock isn't that he "owes wrestling" something. It's that he's crap. What was exciting to a fifteen-year-old in 1999 isn't necessarily going to be exciting to someone pushing thirty in 2013. His act is puerile, stale and he's been utterly shown up and outperformed by the bloke we've been moaning about for the last eight years so it's no wonder not everyone loves his routine anymore. Essentially, a lot of fans have grown out of The Rock (and probably wrestling in general) but never noticed or moved on and they expected him to appeal to them now as much as he did when they were kids. And he gets all tired two minutes into a match and blames it on hamstring injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankCastle Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 John Cena  I respect the guy's dedication and passion for the business, but his promos are formulaic and I find them annoying. I'm not a fan of childish toilet humour and that to me is what his promos are most like. I also don't like the Superman act of overcoming the odds against virtually every monster heel or seemingly insurmountable challenge. There has never been any doubt in my mind that any feud he's been involved in over the past five years will, long term, end in his favour.  I'm also a bit annoyed that after a year in which he showed his more human, vulnerable side against The Rock, that he's now once again been booked to be all superior, and while I could be wrong, I will be hugely surprised if he doesn't beat The Rock at WrestleMania for the WWE Championship. To me that's just redressing the balance from last year, and I don't relish the prospect of another Cena title reign. I really don't see what he has left to do. He's beaten the Rock, Punk, Orton, Big Show, Henry, Kane - I mean who the Hell else is there for him to enter into a fresh feud with that won't be predictable. The only option I can see is Ryback, but that would involve Vince turning his next big project heel, which I can't see happening.  And while I don't want to join the "he should turn heel" crowd, it's the only way I can see him getting any longevity out of his current persona. All the main eventers who have had long runs at the top have varied their character and even turned heel, creating fresh feuds and rivalries and maintaining interest. Bret Hart, Taker, Hogan, Savage, Nash, HHH, HBK, Rock, even guys like Big Show, Kane, Orton, Bob Backlund, Jake Roberts and Andre switched sides and made things more interesting in the long term. I can't see Cena changing (or being allowed to change) for the sake of merchandising and the fear that the cash flow would reduce were he to turn.  Alberto Del Rio  First of all, I'm a huge Big Show fan, so I wasn't a fan of Del Rio taking the title of him in the first place, and coming out on top of the subsequent feud. That aside, even before that, I wasn't a fan of a man who, to me, redefines the word "bland". The fact he's recycling a gimmick that has already been done ten times better by Ted DiBiase Senior and JBL is academic when you consider his valet/manager is more interesting than him. I know he can't help his accented English, but it doesn't help when trying to come across as dastardly or evil, because now he's a face, you can't tell the difference. He just does nothing to "stand out". I can't think of a single time I was impressed by him, even when he won the Royal Rumble, or won the WWE Championship. He just doesn't do anything of note. He's just there. I am ready to be corrected on this by people, but I just don't see him as WWE or World Heavyweight Championship material, and can only think he;s in the position he's in to tap into the Mexican market. Am I being too cynical there?  AJ  Just can't stand her. Too "twee", stupid expressions and mannerisms. Not a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members seph Posted February 20, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 John Cena I respect the guy's dedication and passion for the business, but his promos are formulaic and I find them annoying. I'm not a fan of childish toilet humour and that to me is what his promos are most like. I also don't like the Superman act of overcoming the odds against virtually every monster heel or seemingly insurmountable challenge. There has never been any doubt in my mind that any feud he's been involved in over the past five years will, long term, end in his favour.  I'm also a bit annoyed that after a year in which he showed his more human, vulnerable side against The Rock, that he's now once again been booked to be all superior, and while I could be wrong, I will be hugely surprised if he doesn't beat The Rock at WrestleMania for the WWE Championship. To me that's just redressing the balance from last year, and I don't relish the prospect of another Cena title reign. I really don't see what he has left to do. He's beaten the Rock, Punk, Orton, Big Show, Henry, Kane - I mean who the Hell else is there for him to enter into a fresh feud with that won't be predictable. The only option I can see is Ryback, but that would involve Vince turning his next big project heel, which I can't see happening.  And while I don't want to join the "he should turn heel" crowd, it's the only way I can see him getting any longevity out of his current persona. All the main eventers who have had long runs at the top have varied their character and even turned heel, creating fresh feuds and rivalries and maintaining interest. Bret Hart, Taker, Hogan, Savage, Nash, HHH, HBK, Rock, even guys like Big Show, Kane, Orton, Bob Backlund, Jake Roberts and Andre switched sides and made things more interesting in the long term. I can't see Cena changing (or being allowed to change) for the sake of merchandising and the fear that the cash flow would reduce were he to turn.  Cena's persona is stale in that there's little more variation over what he can do with who, but he's not stale enough to go completely off the boil. Vince has made the smart move of pandering to the child demographic but I think he's done too good a job in that very young kids are more tolerant of the Superhero Babyface than they were in Hulk Hogan's time - Hulkamania was on the wane from early '91 and there was full revolt a year later; Cena has surpassed that 6-year span comfortably enough to maintain his merch chain as nobody fresh (not even Punk) has had enough upside to threaten it, there isn't a fucking steroid scandal or other 'outside' factor to overhaul the strong drive into Cena's stock and where Taker et. al. were rising fast enough to warrant a bigger hunk of the merch pie from Hogan, today's WWE has engineered the lion's share of the focus to Cena with the exception of Rey {to be replaced by ADR?} and Khali for certain non-english-speaking demographics.  Punk (not completely his fault) has gone from the longest reign since Hogan #1 straight into flux - the way I see it he won't be getting the belt back until May at the earliest unless they're suddenly going to fuck with the Rock/Cena II homestead this late. Rocky isn't sticking around for too much longer after WM, Ryback OR Sheamus are the obvious and disappointing choices and Ziggler has probably missed his shot - he's been made to look a fool too often, has clearly given up on the Raw bracket and will likely be the #1 SD guy at some point but by the time he's established they may finally have pulled the Cena trigger.  Actually, that's a pretty exciting prospect if Ziggler can show some face credentials over the next year. Which brings us to:  AJ Just can't stand her. Too "twee", stupid expressions and mannerisms. Not a fan.  She's twee when she wants to be, but she does psycho much better than 90% of the female wrestlers the WWE has ever had. With no disrespect to Langston's upside he's the third man in that power bracket, and if Ziggler doesn't end up with the World strap at some point she'll turn to Big E, turning Dolph in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronSheik Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Greg "The Hammer" Valentine always bored the aaaaaabsolute shit out of me as a wrestler... Always fat. Always looked 50. Always boring as fuck to watch... Ironically he was supposedly as good laugh out of the ring, good gimmick man by all accounts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Is Greg Valentine the only name wrestler to have taken backyard bookings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankCastle Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I agree to a certain extent - The Cena merchandise train is comfortably the most lucrative revenue stream open to WWE and it would make no sense to change that, but I think, personally, that his character has outlived it's usefulness, if not it's popularity. There is only so much you can do at the top of the card, especially when the roster is so limited. For instance, if The Rock wasn't back, who would Cena be feuding with now? Probably Orton, who he feuded with ad infinitum with in 2008/09, or Punk, meaning that he would still be feuding with the guy he started competing with in 2011. Â I suppose the other frustrating thing for me as a fan is why other people have to change to accommodate him. Big Show was toddling along perfectly well as a likeable face and even though the heel turn lead to some of his finest work with Sheamus, it was only done to seemingly provide Cena cannon fodder. Kane returned as a heel and chose not to feud with the man who injured him in kayfabe, but go after Cena, just to provide another monster for him to destroy before he moved onto The Rock. Â Lesnar's return for me was immediately neutered by his loss to Cena, but after being beaten by The Rock, they had to restore his credibility, so he has to defeat another monster heel. Lesnar would, to me, be far more dangerous had he gone straight for Triple H and still be undefeated. Â I know not everyone will agree, but I really don't see where else he can go. Let's say he wins the belt at Mania, and The Rock leaves. Who's left? Punk - again? Orton - again? Henry - another monster for him to overcome the odds with - again? Lesnar? Been there done that. Sheamus? Possibly, but that means a heel turn (for Sheamus). Ryback? Can't see Vince turning him yet? Big Show? - Not again surely. Â The Shield can only be harmed by entering into a feud with Cena. They're not going to come out on top, and if they are merely railroaded for Cena to destroy, then they'll be a midcard comedy act within the year. Â I honestly think he needs a rest or to change his character, just so he can recharge his own creativity and work out some different ways to makret himself beyond the core audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankCastle Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Greg "The Hammer" Valentine always bored the aaaaaabsolute shit out of me as a wrestler... Always fat. Always looked 50. Always boring as fuck to watch... Ironically he was supposedly as good laugh out of the ring, good gimmick man by all accounts... Â Â Yes but he did have about six months where he wore a badass shinguard and had a WWF figure produced wearing it... Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted February 21, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 21, 2013 Greg "The Hammer" Valentine always bored the aaaaaabsolute shit out of me as a wrestler... Always fat. Always looked 50. Always boring as fuck to watch... Ironically he was supposedly as good laugh out of the ring, good gimmick man by all accounts... Â Â Yes but he did have about six months where he wore a badass shinguard and had a WWF figure produced wearing it... Â Â The feud he had with Garvin is still one of my favourite ever. I loved the whole Heartbreaker vs. Hammer Jammer thing, and the matches were great. Â Valentine may not have ever been main event material, but he's definitely one of the best midcarders, for my money. His dog collar match with Piper's still superb to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshC Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The feud he had with Garvin is still one of my favourite ever. I loved the whole Heartbreaker vs. Hammer Jammer thing, and the matches were great. Â Their match at Royal Rumble 1990 must be the best match of the PPV era where neither guy had music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted February 21, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 21, 2013 That's another thing - Valentine's entrance music was the business. The production company that makes Family Guy even uses the two hammer-on-anvil strike sounds from the beginning in its sound logo after FG's end credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted February 21, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 21, 2013 The production company that makes Family Guy even uses the two hammer-on-anvil strike sounds from the beginning in its sound logo after FG's end credits. Â Yeah, but Family Guy is TV cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Paul's Bin Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 That's another thing - Valentine's entrance music was the business. The production company that makes Family Guy even uses the two hammer-on-anvil strike sounds from the beginning in its sound logo after FG's end credits. Â I mentioned it a few weeks ago but I really liked his music he used in WCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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