Paid Members LaGoosh Posted February 3, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 3, 2013 He didn't say he was Goosh. People are talking about great workers working together creating great matches. I like Rikishi, I love all those Samoaon bastards, but he's not one generally considered in the 'great' bracket is he? This discussion is getting a bit silly now. Â My mistake. I thought the original poster was using HHH's match with Rikishi to argue the whole "Triple H only had good matches with good opponents" point. Â I watched the Bret interview earlier, it's pretty ridiculous as a whole. He mentions stuff like Punk doing a second rope elbow as a tribute to Bret on his birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 See, I used to be like that as well, but when did he actually start throwing it up Stephanie? Because I'm pretty certain he was already on his way up way before they got together. Â No, he was a jobber getting squashed by Warrior and rolling in shit with Henry Godwinn until he married Steph. According to morons, anyway. Â He and Steph got together during their storyline romance. By then he was a two-time champion and the company's top heel on a clear course for the WrestleMania 2000 main. Idiots who go on about him politicking his way to the top would be better off looking to his alliance with Michaels than his relationship with the princess. Â Triple H owes a lot of his rise to Foley and The Rock, I think. As Rock soared to megastardom, Triple H was right there with him. In '97, Rock beat him for the IC title when nobody cared about Rock. In '98, they had their faction wars and ladder match. In '99, Rock was fast becoming The Man and the history with Hunter meant they could battle for number one contendership in top matches. A year later, they were the top two dogs in wrestling, feuding for the title. Rock had no problems selling and losing, same for Foley. Triple H was lucky with the timing of his rise that Austin's injury led to him working with less selfish babyfaces in the top programs. Much like Hunter's misfortunes in 1996 had helped Austin's career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted February 3, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 3, 2013 Yeah, Triple H definitely has a lot to thank them for. This goes back to my point of the really great wrestlers can add to another's aura without diminishing their own. Most of the greats are generally made or given a good rub by other greats. Hitman did it for Austin, Perfect (moreso) and Piper did it for Bret, Undertaker did it for Mankind, Foley did it for Triple H, Triple H did it for Batista and to an extent Cena, Rock did it for Brock and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted February 3, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 3, 2013 I would've said JBL did it for Cena, really, but I agree with all the others. I was arguing for this about three years ago, when WWE had been relying solely on Cena for so long, yet seemed so unwilling to commit to properly pushing a guy to the main event, i.e. not just slapping the belt on him but actually giving him a big, career-defining win that would put him solidly into the perennial main event scene. Prior to Punk's MITB win against Cena in Chicago, there hadn't really been one like that since Cena beat JBL and Batista beat Triple H at WM21. Â Triple H clearly was a bit of a politician, true, but over the years I've become less and less of the opinion that that's why he is where is. His politicking clearly didn't protect him against punishment for the Curtain Call, and if his career was based entirely on his politics he would've stunk up the main event scene for years with sub-par performances from not having evolved since the early-to-mid-90s. But he put the work in and got great - continually so, because the improvement in his matches is marked and visible as you watch the events go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JohnnyChimpo Posted February 4, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 4, 2013 Taka Michinoku was way above average, as was The 1-2-3 Kid. Sorry, but seeing their names put in there just bugged the shit right out of me. Â I never said Waltman was average. In fact, I listed him as one of the excellent workers that Hart worker with. Waltman is my second favourite wrestler of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JohnnyChimpo Posted February 4, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 4, 2013 His WWF title defence v Rikishi was arguably (as pointed out earlier in this thread) the best TV main event ever. I doubt there is a better Rikishi match out there. Â Rikishi vs The Rock, Survivor Series 2000 was a better match. Rikishi was hardly some fat shit that needed to be carried, he had plenty of good matches. Â Â I never said he was. But I disagree anyway. The match v The Rock (which took place in survivor Series 2001) was pretty bland and by the numbers. It certainly lacked the drama of the HHH match. On numerous occasions it genuinely looked like Rikishi was going to win the title. Back in that epic heel run of 00, Triple H really was the king of the near fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 It was Survivor Series 2000 in Tampa. I was lucky enough to be on a family holiday to be there. I disagree, I thought Rock vs Rikishi was really good. I did enjoy HHH matched with Rikishi as well though. Â 2001 was the end of the invasion angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted February 4, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 4, 2013 Am I right in thinking Rock was the only top babyface with the bollocks big enough to take the stinkface? Austin wouldn't. Undertaker wouldn't. Rock did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JohnnyChimpo Posted February 4, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 4, 2013 It was Survivor Series 2000 in Tampa. I was lucky enough to be on a family holiday to be there. I disagree, I thought Rock vs Rikishi was really good. I did enjoy HHH matched with Rikishi as well though. 2001 was the end of the invasion angle.  Fuck me, you're right. For some reason I thought 2000 was what was meant to be the Rock-Austin-HHH triple threat, but Austin got run over instead. But that was '99. Apologies LaGoosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cum Doctor Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Taka Michinoku was way above average, as was The 1-2-3 Kid. Sorry, but seeing their names put in there just bugged the shit right out of me. Â I never said Waltman was average. In fact, I listed him as one of the excellent workers that Hart worker with. Waltman is my second favourite wrestler of all time. Â Yeah, caught the misread there actually. Stand by my Taka point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Triple H owes a lot of his rise to Foley and The Rock, I think. Â And they to him. Faces are only as good as the heels who put them over. Rocky's surge to popularity probably wouldn't have been as good if it'd been The Mantaur who he'd been vying for the title with. Â They say being a face is the hardest, but being a proper heel at a time when faces were generally anti-heroes like Austin and the nWo, and being good enough to be the go-to heel... that deserves real credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 It's also worth noting the guys that Triple H was working with in his best matches. When you're working with talent like that a good wrestler can look like a great wrestler. Â That's a bollocks point. Triple H had loads of matches with "average" workers that were great bouts. His match with The Undertaker at Mania 17 was every bit a classic. That match came at a time when Taker was having stinkers with everyone. Pick out another great Taker match from his return in 2000 until about Mania 18. Â His WWF title defence v Rikishi was arguably (as pointed out earlier in this thread) the best TV main event ever. I doubt there is a better Rikishi match out there. His match with Taka was every bit as good as the much lauded Bret v 123 Kid. My favourite WWF/E match of all time is HHH V The Rock at Backlash. I know The Rock is a great worker, but its takes two to tango. The match at Summerslam 2000 is an excellent example of Triple H carrying a match. As is Taboo Tuesday against a one legged HBK. Â It's not like Bret had shit to work with. You could flip your comment right back onto Bret. Who were the guys Bret was working with in his better matches? Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, Curt Hennig, Owen Hart, Sean Waltman. Hardly a list of people who drag a match down. "When you're working with talent like that a good wrestler can look like a great wrestler." Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he was poor as Bret is implying, I'm simply saying that I don't think he's a real great. He was solid in the ring, and a very good promo guy, plus he had a cracking look, but he just wasn't a great in my opinion. Â For what it's worth I also believe he was pushed a lot further than he would have been on talent alone. There's no fault in that, of course, but I reckon he wouldn't have quite hit the heights he did were he not a member of the McMahon family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsClobberingTime Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 For me, regardless of Stephanie or whoever else, there's no way a guy liked HHH could be 'on top' for as long as he has been without actually being that damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 For what it's worth I also believe he was pushed a lot further than he would have been on talent alone. There's no fault in that, of course, but I reckon he wouldn't have quite hit the heights he did were he not a member of the McMahon family. Fortunately, he became a member of the McMahon family in 1997 and was pushed to a king of the ring win, founding and later leading one of the biggest factions ever, and multiple world titles. None of which he would've achieved without being married to a McMahon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Scott Malbranque Posted February 4, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 4, 2013 Only saw this Bret Hart nonsense now! That's a shocking ruling by Hart on HHH. I think he's had many a great match. Last years Mania match being one, and one that even made my missus - who hates wrestling - perk up and say 'This is quite fun isn't it? That H7 guy looks like you when you had long hair'. H7 - her words. Most people think of Taker or Foley when they think of HIAC but I genuinely think of HHH. I realise I'm a few days behind, but for the love of pox, that is pure rubbish he's piping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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