Bret shoots on Triple H

[David]

For what it's worth I also believe he was pushed a lot further than he would have been on talent alone. There's no fault in that, of course, but I reckon he wouldn't have quite hit the heights he did were he not a member of the McMahon family.

Fortunately, he became a member of the McMahon family in 1997 and was pushed to a king of the ring win, founding and later leading one of the biggest factions ever, and multiple world titles. None of which he would've achieved without being married to a McMahon.

His rise from being the support to Shawn Michaels in DX pre-2000 to what he accomplished afterwards suggest to me that there was more than talent involved. It was right around the time that he dumped Chyna on her arse in order to further his career by politicking his way up the ladder, making moves on McMahon's daughter in the process that he started really getting places.

 

Again, I'm not saying he was a terrible wrestler. He was a very good talent, but there's no way he accomplishes what he did post-2000 without making the right moves behind the scenes.

[ShortOrderCook]

Nah, that's bollocks. It's nowhere near as just down to politics as people suggest. Triple H eats, lives, breathes wrestling and worked his cock off to get to where he got to. He made plenty of smart moves along the way (and plenty of bad ones too) but why should that be seen in a negative light.

 

People always go on about Cenas work ethic and crazy schedule, Triple Hs schedule (with children to boot) is absolutely insane. His work ethic is off the charts. Not just anybody could have married Steph and done what he has done.

[garynysmon]

Nah, that's bollocks. It's nowhere near as just down to politics as people suggest. Triple H eats, lives, breathes wrestling and worked his cock off to get to where he got to. He made plenty of smart moves along the way (and plenty of bad ones too) but why should that be seen in a negative light.

 

Aye, they say steroids will have that effect on you.

[Scott Malbranque]

I do love HHH but he looks like Sean Bean in Outlaw now with the fuzzy crew cut.

[ShortOrderCook]

Nah, that's bollocks. It's nowhere near as just down to politics as people suggest. Triple H eats, lives, breathes wrestling and worked his cock off to get to where he got to. He made plenty of smart moves along the way (and plenty of bad ones too) but why should that be seen in a negative light.

 

Aye, they say steroids will have that effect on you.

 

Fucking hell.

[Carbomb]

For what it's worth I also believe he was pushed a lot further than he would have been on talent alone. There's no fault in that, of course, but I reckon he wouldn't have quite hit the heights he did were he not a member of the McMahon family.

Fortunately, he became a member of the McMahon family in 1997 and was pushed to a king of the ring win, founding and later leading one of the biggest factions ever, and multiple world titles. None of which he would've achieved without being married to a McMahon.

 

Two, surely?

[fye]

See, I used to be like that as well, but when did he actually start throwing it up Stephanie? Because I'm pretty certain he was already on his way up way before they got together.

 

No, he was a jobber getting squashed by Warrior and rolling in shit with Henry Godwinn until he married Steph. According to morons, anyway.

 

He and Steph got together during their storyline romance. By then he was a two-time champion and the company's top heel on a clear course for the WrestleMania 2000 main. Idiots who go on about him politicking his way to the top would be better off looking to his alliance with Michaels than his relationship with the princess.

 

Triple H owes a lot of his rise to Foley and The Rock, I think. As Rock soared to megastardom, Triple H was right there with him. In '97, Rock beat him for the IC title when nobody cared about Rock. In '98, they had their faction wars and ladder match. In '99, Rock was fast becoming The Man and the history with Hunter meant they could battle for number one contendership in top matches. A year later, they were the top two dogs in wrestling, feuding for the title. Rock had no problems selling and losing, same for Foley. Triple H was lucky with the timing of his rise that Austin's injury led to him working with less selfish babyfaces in the top programs. Much like Hunter's misfortunes in 1996 had helped Austin's career.

 

I think this is a great assessment of Triple H's rise. For me he was the man to watch from SummerSlam 1999 up to his injury then again when he returned until he seemed to lose his stride in an in-ring sense in Evolution.

[LaGoosh]

Yeah there was definitely a period of a few years where Triple H was fucking awful in the ring. He was having stinkers damn near every week. I think that's a lot of what turned me off WWE for a few years because he was still being pushed heavily despite being crap.

 

As mentioned before, I'm currently watch Raw 99 and in a quite odd moment one week Triple H goes from looking like a generic mid card heel to a future main event look. I think it's because he was probably bang on the gas and working out like a mad man at that point as he is getting bigger by the week and he has started slicking his hair back. But it's quite a startling and quick transformation.

[TheBigBoot]

Wanted to wait until I'd heard the interview before responding.

 

Some interesting points here I'd like to argue if I have the time but for now two things stand out to me:

 

Firstly, I don't think Bret saying Triple H isn't a great wrestler is all that controversial.

 

Ric Flair might have some strange opinions but one thing I agree with him on is the word "great" is overused.

 

Saying he's always been a good wrestler, with a good look but he doesn't rank him as an alltime great is no different from a lot of people on have written on here over the years. No different from a lot of what I've said about him being inconsistent/not working well with certain opponents. I generally think of him as a very good wrestler who at times looked great. That's still better than the vast, vast majority of to ever lace 'em up.

 

It's just Bret went a bit far with it, and picked a pretty silly example in Punk.

 

Totally disagree with the bit about Hunter never been in a great match. One thing I will say for him is that for someone who has gone through he hasn't had a full year since he joined WCW where he hasn't had at least one match I enjoyed.

 

Secondly, (and I'm surprised noone has really made this point apart from indirectly by Ian in the context of all ex-wrestlers being nutters) wrestlers have all kinds of strange opinions on other workers.

 

Someone might be regarded backstage as a great person to be around or regarded as easy to work with but it doesn't mean the fans enjoy their matches. Or someone might be rated really highly by us lot but backstage everyone hates getting programmed with them because they are too stiff. Bret has been in the ring with Triple H early in his career so he may be going partly on that, but even in the case of guys/girls who have never met if you are someone with a long and successful wrestling career then you are probably looking at it from a different perspective than that of a fan or someone who has worked a few indie shows and probably value whatever it is was taught to them by their own mentors.

 

I'm sure in some cases it is bitterness from being out of the spotlight but a lot of the time I think it's just cultural/generational differences.

 

After he retired for the first time in the late thirties, one of the biggest stars of alltime Strangler Lewis became a critic of then current wrestling product.

 

Lou Thesz thought Harley Race and Ric Flair sucked, and claimed his grandmother could do a better legdrop than Hulk Hogan.

 

When WWF was getting popular over here in the early 90s it seemed to be the law that every article had to have one quote from a World of Sport era star saying "the yanks look good but they can't actually wrestle a match!"

 

I'm sure there was a thing on here a few years ago where people were annoyed Kevin Nash had called Scott Hall one of the best wrestlers of alltime or something.

 

Flair's book was full of him putting down those who didn't work the way he thought wrestling should happen.

 

Doesn't take anything away from Thesz/the Britsh wrestling legends/Flair/Bret for me. I can enjoy their matches and equally enjoy the stuff they thought was rubbish.