Brewster McCloud Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 minute ago, TheToeSucker said: I just mean in general. People tend to look at the WWF as the template for wrestling. Which it is, if any wrestling company actually wants to be profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheToeSucker Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 and yet, their top guys are now smaller guys, With the exception of Brock and maaaaaaaybe Roman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewster McCloud Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 And they still make loads of money, mysteriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheToeSucker Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 so you agree that you don't need to be a steroid muscleman to make WWE bucket loads of money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Brewster McCloud said: The likes of you and I, David, are utterly irrelevant. We prefer to watch UFC, plenty of others still watch WWE every week. Rinse, repeat. Vince is not having a crisis about the lack of roided up lunatics on his roster. It's not the "roided up lunatics" I want in particular, although they were generally fun to watch. Give me someone who's got something about them that is interesting, that's all I ask. The Ricochet guy is entertaining the first few times you watch him, but he's basically going through the same repertoire every time, and it has its place, but there has to be more on offer. As I said above, there's really nothing that WWE offers today that isn't being done better elsewhere, be it regular television, or MMA. There's nothing that makes it stand out. As far as money making goes, it would seriously be difficult for WWE to not make money in this era. They have zero competition for fuck sake! They know today that most pro wrestling fans either have to keep watching or turn off entirely. There's little by way of an alternative. I'm not denying that they've positioned themselves very well as far as business goes, but I have never in my life watched a WWE PPV and thought "well, that was shit, but they;re still making bucketloads of money and that's what really matters." I'm posting here as a fan. I don't give a flying fuck how much dough Vince banks on a yearly basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewster McCloud Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 minute ago, David said: It's not the "roided up lunatics" I want in particular, although they were generally fun to watch. Give me someone who's got something about them that is interesting, that's all I ask. The Ricochet guy is entertaining the first few times you watch him, but he's basically going through the same repertoire every time, and it has its place, but there has to be more on offer. As I said above, there's really nothing that WWE offers today that isn't being done better elsewhere, be it regular television, or MMA. There's nothing that makes it stand out. As far as money making goes, it would seriously be difficult for WWE to not make money in this era. They have zero competition for fuck sake! They know today that most pro wrestling fans either have to keep watching or turn off entirely. There's little by way of an alternative. I'm not denying that they've positioned themselves very well as far as business goes, but I have never in my life watched a WWE PPV and thought "well, that was shit, but they;re still making bucketloads of money and that's what really matters." I'm posting here as a fan. I don't give a flying fuck how much dough Vince banks on a yearly basis. I don't either. Vince's bank balance troubles me not. I did stop watching wrestling, pretty much in general, about 10 years ago and especially after the Benoit incident. It just seemed time to move on from it and embrace adulthood a bit more. I'll watch the old youtube video/Wrestlemania every now and again when my inner child yells at me, but that's it. If, somehow, magically, guys like Piper and Savage were cutting mental promos and doing crazy unpredictable things, I might well go back. But it's not going to happen. It's dead to me now. The WWE is in competition with social media and Netflix. certainly not MMA or other wrestling companies. A small percentage of people who grew up loving the WWF 80s era gravitated towards MMA in later life, but it's not a significant number. You could throw a stone in the crowd of the next Raw and ask the guy it hits if he thinks BJ Penn should still be fighting and he will look at you with puzzlement. And perhaps anger for throwing a stone at him in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchopcash Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 The should have an Irish fella come in, maybe a friend of Seamus who is called Rick O’Shea and let him fued with Ricochet. That could elevate Ricochet to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Dem Wanz Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Porkchopcash said: The should have an Irish fella come in, maybe a friend of Seamus who is called Rick O’Shea and let him fued with Ricochet. That could elevate Ricochet to the next level. Ronan Reigns vs Roman Reigns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironic Indie Lad Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, Brewster McCloud said: The WWE is in competition with social media and Netflix. certainly not MMA or other wrestling companies. A small percentage of people who grew up loving the WWF 80s era gravitated towards MMA in later life, but it's not a significant number. You could throw a stone in the crowd of the next Raw and ask the guy it hits if he thinks BJ Penn should still be fighting and he will look at you with puzzlement. And perhaps anger for throwing a stone at him in the first place. Sounds like bollocks to me there pal. What are you basing that on? The crossover from jaded former wrestling fan to MMA fan was absolutely massive. It's cooled off a bit now but when UFC had Chuck, Rand, Tito, GSP, Silva, Brock, Conor, Ronda etc. then a huge percentage of the fans were either current or former wrestling fans. Also re: the massive amounts of money they are making. Do you realise the vast majority of their money comes from guaranteed TV money? On contracts based on the assumption that a boom period is coming when they move to fox? That's not really a reflection of the quality of the current product when every other relevant metric such as attendance, network subs etc. are way down. Point is, wrestling/MMA are both star driven businesses. Always have been and always will be. What constitutes a star changes with the times so its stupid and ignorant to say that a massively roided up, tanned cokehead maniac would be a huge hit now just because it got over in the 80s. Hogan was the right guy at the right time, Austin was the right guy at the right time etc. There have been brief moments since (CM Punk in 2011, Daniel Bryan in 2013) where it looked like everything was falling into place but it never really materialised for a variety of reasons. UFC business is down because they lost their biggest draws and were unable to replace them. WWE business is down because nobody there is perceived as a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Your Fight Site Posted July 31, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted July 31, 2019 I’m loving the random and quirky photos in this conversation… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Onyx2 Posted July 31, 2019 Awards Moderator Share Posted July 31, 2019 When in doubt - post a picture of Andre. Misawa and Kawada with the double team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironic Indie Lad Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Crazy to think this was after Andre died the day after 'Mania 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewster McCloud Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 48 minutes ago, Ironic Indie Lad said: Sounds like bollocks to me there pal. What are you basing that on? The crossover from jaded former wrestling fan to MMA fan was absolutely massive. It's cooled off a bit now but when UFC had Chuck, Rand, Tito, GSP, Silva, Brock, Conor, Ronda etc. then a huge percentage of the fans were either current or former wrestling fans. Also re: the massive amounts of money they are making. Do you realise the vast majority of their money comes from guaranteed TV money? On contracts based on the assumption that a boom period is coming when they move to fox? That's not really a reflection of the quality of the current product when every other relevant metric such as attendance, network subs etc. are way down. Point is, wrestling/MMA are both star driven businesses. Always have been and always will be. What constitutes a star changes with the times so its stupid and ignorant to say that a massively roided up, tanned cokehead maniac would be a huge hit now just because it got over in the 80s. Hogan was the right guy at the right time, Austin was the right guy at the right time etc. There have been brief moments since (CM Punk in 2011, Daniel Bryan in 2013) where it looked like everything was falling into place but it never really materialised for a variety of reasons. UFC business is down because they lost their biggest draws and were unable to replace them. WWE business is down because nobody there is perceived as a star. It's not bollocks. The UfC's numbers shot up in the early days when jaded wrestling fans were curious about it, but if that's still the same then why haven't they changed? My point is that "quality" whatever that means, isn't relevant now. Vince doesn't want "stars" in the old sense of the word because he was burned badly by The Rock, Batista and Brock, to a lesser extent, leaving him in the lurch and waving contracts at them that they didn't sign. We complain, Dana and Vince laugh and buy bigger yachts. The WWE is not a star-driven business anymore; it's a brand driven business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironic Indie Lad Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Just now, Brewster McCloud said: It's not bollocks. The UfC's numbers shot up in the early days when jaded wrestling fans were curious about it, but if that's still the same then why haven't they changed? My point is that "quality" whatever that means, isn't relevant now. Vince doesn't want "stars" in the old sense of the word because he was burned badly by The Rock, Batista and Brock, to a lesser extent, leaving him in the lurch and waving contracts at them that they didn't sign. We complain, Dana and Vince laugh and buy bigger yachts. The WWE is not a star-driven business anymore; it's a brand driven business. What are you talking about? The UFC numbers were insanely good in the early days because of the novelty and curiosity of real no holds barred mixed rules fighting. On the strength of the early shows, people bought into the likes of Royce, Shamrock, Severn, Tank etc. as stars. Once they had political and PPV distribution problems, they lost their drawing cards to pro wrestling and PRIDE. UFC was incredibly niche and struggled along for years until they got on TV and guys like Chuck, Randy, Hughes, Franklin, GSP, Silva, Penn etc.. became big names in that 2005ish 'boom' period. It's well documented how big the crossover from WWE to UFC was at the time. Ultimate Fighter was literally on immediately following RAW on the same channel and a big portion of the RAW viewership stuck around to watch TUF. Coincidentally UFC PPV buy rates went up massively. Who do you think these buyers were? Since that initial boom UFC has sold an incredible number of PPVs (their main source of revenue) off the back of names like Lesnar, Jones, McGregor, Rousey, GSP and Silva. The only star/draw from that list that they have left is Jones. They have more product than ever, less stars than ever and way less blockbuster PPVs than ever. If any one of those names made a comeback then it would be absolutely fucking huge because they are stars and people will pay to watch them fight. Vince and Dana don't want stars? Utter nonsense. Think about what you are saying. What is the value of THE BRAND if there are no stars? If they don't want stars then why do they keep bringing back old stars from another era to boost declining business? WWE and UFC are both totally unsustainable without marketable stars. That's a fact. Both companies are receiving enormous guaranteed money from TV deals at the moment but when those deals expire, if business everywhere else is way down and there's no big stars then do you really think those contracts are going to be worth quite so much money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewster McCloud Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) The fact that the brands are making shitloads for the owners? Just a thought. Here are some facts and figures for you: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2016/07/12/ufc-vs-wwe-how-much-more-is-real-fighting-worth/#2176424850f0 Doesn't look too shabby to me. They want the brand to sell, not some individuals who might use their name value to leave at the drop of a hat. The circus is in town, let's interrupt our pointless lives for a bit of momentary entertainment. That's the deal. Edited July 31, 2019 by Brewster McCloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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