Random thoughts thread v2 *NO NEWS ITEMS*

[Pinc]

Mongs say Michaels, Men say Lawler, or Funk, or Hansen.

I'm just repeating this for truth.

 

My brother emigrated to Japan a year ago and I only get the chance to speak with him intermittently. Nevertheless I spent about 20 minutes on the Facebook chat to him the other day arguing that a) Terry Funk is probably the greatest wrestler ever and b) Terry & Dory Jr are the wrestling equivalents of Bobby and Jacky Charlton, citing the dodgy combovers from a young age (Bobby/Dory) and early 90s reinventions (Terry & ECW, Jacky & Ireland) as particularly striking parallels.

[Mr Butternut Squash]

Does anybody truly believe HBK's the greatest of all time? I know it's a matter of opinion and all that but I mean in terms of number of great matches. It seems he's put up there thanks to the WWE hype machine. He was at his best in the Rockers I think.

[Statto]

Something that occurred to me earlier - in a wrestling world where moves that used to be deadly progress into being run-of-the-mill (the DDT is the king of this IMO, but in the early 80s jobbers were being put away on WWF TV with bodyslams & vertical suplexes), how has the humble belly-to-belly suplex remained viable?

 

I always found it strangely incongruous in ECW where, while guys were kicking out of chairshots, getting assaulted with cheese graters & one guy pretty much had a balcony dive as a finisher, World Champion Shane Douglas was dominating opponents with his deadly belly-to-belly suplex.

 

Now, Bo Dallas is using it as a finisher (presumably as WWE have quite rightly made him sack off the spear because it's Kaitlyn's now ) - I just don't get it!

[Jaffa]

Does anybody truly believe HBK's the greatest of all time? I know it's a matter of opinion and all that but I mean in terms of number of great matches. It seems he's put up there thanks to the WWE hype machine. He was at his best in the Rockers I think.

I think Air Raid made an argument for HBK being the best ever. It may not have been him as Raid knows his Japanese wrestling onions and most fans of puro say Kobashi (did I pronounce that right Carbomb?) is the best ever.

 

Like you say, it's a matter of opinion and unfortunately, if you were to start a thread for this (which would be perfectly valid) it would likely degenerate into another HBK vs Bret Hart debate and that's been done to death.

 

Personally, I can't think of anyone who had more great matches than Shawn Michaels.

[TheShowOff]

Does anybody truly believe HBK's the greatest of all time? I know it's a matter of opinion and all that but I mean in terms of number of great matches. It seems he's put up there thanks to the WWE hype machine. He was at his best in the Rockers I think.

 

No, it's all a big conspiracy

[UK Kat Von D]

HBK is good, but he will always be in CM Punk's shadow

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Larry Matysik's book of the top 50 workers ever came out recently. Here's his top 50 for those interested.

1. Lou Thesz

2. Ric Flair

3. Strangler Lewis

4. Hulk Hogan

5. Bruno Sammartino

6. Steve Austin

7. Jim Londos

8. Buddy Rogers

9. Gene Kiniski

10. Frank Gotch

11. Verne Gagne

12. Harley Race

t-13. Dory Funk Jr.

t-13. Terry Funk

15. Shawn Michaels

16. Johnny Valentine

17. Bill Longson

18. Nick Bockwinkel

19. Jack Brisco

20. The Rock

21. Bret Hart

22. Dick the Bruiser

23. Edouard Carpentier

24. Andre the Giant

25. Randy Savage

26. Triple H

27. Killer Kowalski

28. Fritz Von Erich

29. Whipper Billy Watson

30. Joe Stecher

31. John Cena

32. Bruiser Brody

33. Kurt Angle

34. Danny Hodge

35. Bob Backlund

36. The Undertaker

37. Gorgeous George

38. Pat O'Connor

39. Ted Dibiase

40. Roddy Piper

41. Ray Stevens

42. Fred Blassie

43. Ray Steele

44. Dusty Rhodes

45. Ricky Steamboat

46. Bill Miller

47. Superstar Billy Graham

48. Brock Lesnar

49. Stan Hansen

50. Randy Orton

 

No Sir Mo, which is disappointing.

[jimufctna24]

This may sound a bit mental, but I consider Randy Savage to be the best worker ever.

 

It is a preference thing, but I really enjoyed his style. He could have a decent brawl and was a pretty good high flyer so he was very diverse. I know he had a OCD about planning matches, but it seemed to work because most of his matches made sense. He was excellent at crowd interaction as well, and he could carry a opponent with a lower status like he did with DDP in WCW.

 

I remember flicking around years back and some old Memphis show was on TWC, Savage was wrestling Austin Idol (who I had never seen before or since) and it was a fantastic match and the crowd were going mental, I could never get into anything else on TWC but if I saw Memphis was on I would turn it on to see if Savage was on it. Buying his DVD a while back confirmed I did not just like him due to rose tinted glasses of childhood.

Edited March 23, 2013 by jimufctna24

[Maverick]

It's hardly mental, while not my favorite ever Savage was a top class worker for near 20 years and had great matches with everyone from Andre to Bill Dundee. Funny you mention that feud with Page, it's genuinely my favourite wrestling feud ever. Was just brillantly built with angles like the fake LA Parka stuff and the dueling interviews and the Liz/Kimberly interaction. Made a huge star out of DDP aswell, was probably Savage's last great run before his injuries finally caught up with him.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Savage is the only wrestling death that actually got me to the lump in my throat stage. Even Owen Hart it was like a "fucking hell, you need that dont you?" type reaction. I had these memories of WWF crisps with Savage on the front and swapping cards with my mates when I was five in my head when WWE did that tribute to him. Whether we know it or not, I suppose over the years bits of love the business chips away. Savage dying sort of reminded me why I used to love it so much. The blinding colours, the mental promos, the always-in-the-gimmick wrestlers, the simple storylines.

 

I was thinking this the other day, that Miss Elizabeth reunion at WM7 might have been the greatest angle ever. At least the greatest WWF ever did. They were together for a few years on screen, then they had this huge storyline where Liz and Randy split up, then Savage turned heel and went with Sherri and on the night he retired he got back together with his first love. Fat lasses and lads with specs on were in-fucking-floods of tears. You just dont get shit like that. Even then you didn't. Amazing looking at it.

Edited March 23, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[Mr Butternut Squash]

What I love about Savage is his constant intensity and the relentlessness of his attack. Him and Warrior used to bet on how many coffees ( + pick your poison) they could neck before going out for a match. It shows and it's awesome.

 

I was thinking this the other day, that Miss Elizabeth reunion at WM7 might have been the greatest angle ever. At least the greatest WWF ever did. They were together for a few years on screen, then they had this huge storyline where Liz and Randy split up, then Savage turned heel and went with Sherri and on the night he retired he got back together with his first love. Fat lasses and lads with specs on were in-fucking-floods of tears. You just dont get shit like that. Even then you didn't. Amazing looking at it.

 

I've actively avoided this since Savage's death. I just know I would crumble

 

The Savage/Warrior match is one of the best ever too.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Mr Butternut Squash

[Maverick]

I was near in tears when Hulk finally came out to escort Brooke for her wedding. I'm a massive pansy.

[jimufctna24]

Inspector Paul - Yeah the entire DDP/Savage feud is fantastic. NWO were at their peak then, great time to be a wrestling fan with my personal favorite feud of Austin/Bret on the other channel.

 

I also echo the love for Savage/Warrior and the angle that came after it. Ian sums it up with childhood memories, my first tape was Wrestlemania 8 that had Savage/Flair on it. I loved that match as a kid and I still enjoyed it greatly when I watched it back a few years ago. I think if I was to keep a handful of wrestling DVD's the Savage one would near the top of the list, as because Ian said he is someone he would remind you how much you loved wrestling as a kid.

 

Only the Austin Blu Ray and Savage's DVD did that for me.

[PowerButchi]

Austin Idol (who I had never seen before or since)

 

Idol is great! Check out his team with Tommy Rich feuding with Lawler, going to the hair match. It's tremendous stuff.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Given previous UKFFers were being criticised a while back for calling current WWE stars Jon Moxley, Bryan Danielson and Claudio Castagnoli I guess you meant to call him Zeb Colter?

Isn't the same person, though. Following Butch's lead (through jealously, mainly) I decided to inbox the great man himself and they are two different people. I asked him when his next book was coming out, and congratulated him on his work as Zeb and this is what he had to say:

Planning on writing another book...but it will be a year or so away. This time I will tell some stories that I couldn't tell before. But it will be good. As for that bastard Zeb, he's kinda got people confused that it's me. How in the fuck can that happen? Great hearing from you...stay in contact. Take care...WE THE PEOPLE!!!

Edited March 24, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay