Raw Discussion and all that

[Wrasslin]

Whilst it was a good promo, what is the fucking point of doing that? I didn't think it worked when Heyman did it, and it certainly didn't work when Styles did it.

 

Think about it for a second. You let a top performer go out and state live on your show, all the things the whingers and moaners say about your company. For those mongs out there who already believe all that, all you're doing is cementing those beliefs and presenting them with a hero, who's probably a hero to them anyway, as Heyman and Styles were also.But to the non-smarky, general public audience, it just looks like your show is entirely amateur hour. They're either going to think "wow, what an ungrateful prick" or "maybe he's right, why do I bother watching this show?" Neither reaction is going to help your business in the long run and both make you look bad.

 

This whole promo was an exercise in extreme vantiy by the WWE management, a two fingers up at the audience, both smark and casual. I can't think of a company that has benefited from running itself down or indeed its product. Whenever WCW hit the reset button near the end, it killed another chunk of their audience. When Vince walked out on the last Nitro and ran down the WCW roster, about 1/3 of the wrestling audience turned off and never tuned in again. The worked shoot era of the 90s only served to confuse the whole identity of what pro wrestling was. We knew it was fake, but once they started talking about it as fake it made fans look even more stupid, and then made the company look stupid when a few weeks later they went back to presenting it as real again. There's a reason why breaking the fourth wall in drama is such a no-no, and should only be attempted by those who really understand why - and the WWE are not that good.

 

To paraphrase Jim Cornette: Does it really matter if a heel comes out and runs down the company? If John Cena or Randy Orton came out and said the same thing I could understand the problem. But Punk is the bad guy, people aren't supposed to buy into what he says. This is not going to convert the little kids and women (the only people who realistically aren't going to cheer for Punk in this feud anyway) into rabid CM Punk fans. They're just going to think he's a heel who's bitter about Cena/ Rock/ Hogan's success.

[LWOLeN]

But to the non-smarky, general public audience, it just looks like your show is entirely amateur hour. They're either going to think "wow, what an ungrateful prick" or "maybe he's right, why do I bother watching this show?" Neither reaction is going to help your business in the long run and both make you look bad.

 

Punk has never been portayed as a tweener a la Stone Cold. For the last years, he has been build up as a "master of manipulation" who will do everything necessary to get what he wants.

He isn't " telling the truth" in the little kiddies eyes. He's just "whining", like always.

 

In our eyes (smarks) he is indeed telling the truth, which is the whole point. All the smarks on my facebook page, have been sharing this video now, saying "it's awesome", "best thing in years" etc..

Seems to me, like WWE just wants to get the " smarks" back into the WWE product and the reactions in this topic shows it's actually working!

[Loki]

If you want to get smarks back into your product, you improve the product rather than start some sort of work-shoot about their grievances. To me, the promo says that the WWE know what smarks dislike, and don't care.

 

As for the normal fans - the way the WWE are reacting to CM Punk's promo is telling them that this is NOT just a heel bitching. They're treating it as a shoot - we're meant to think it's something out of the ordinary.

[dangerously420]

For me i loved the CM Punk Promo.

[Wrasslin]

If you want to get smarks back into your product, you improve the product rather than start some sort of work-shoot about their grievances. To me, the promo says that the WWE know what smarks dislike, and don't care.

 

As for the normal fans - the way the WWE are reacting to CM Punk's promo is telling them that this is NOT just a heel bitching. They're treating it as a shoot - we're meant to think it's something out of the ordinary.

 

Surely doing something like this, which has created buzz amongst us 'smarks' is getting us back into the product? I mean we're talking about it aren't we? And it seems to have been largely positively received.

 

Maybe acknowledging the weakness of the product on air, and going in a completely different direction for once IS improving the product? At least they seem to be trying something different. Whatever it was, you can't deny it was entertaining.

[Mr.Showtime]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mason Ryan gets less Raw airtime than Zack Ryder tonight. That'll teach him for winning a popular vote.

I laughed when, within 5 minutes, we were told Mason Ryan wasn't even in the bloody building.

 

I can see where Loki is coming from with his insights but I don't think it needs to be looked into as much as that. Everybody who doesn't "get it" will just think 'oh, what an ungrateful prick' like you said - everybody else would just find it entertaining. And if they didn't, they shouldn't be watching. Whether the contents of the promo was 'right' or not, it was performed miles better than anything seen on that show in bloody ages.

 

I assume he was wearing the Austin shirt due to some sort of Twitter conversation - those two tweet each other with jokey insults all the time.

[Ant]

I didn't watch the show, but it sounds an entertaining promo.

 

Nonetheless surely the risk is a great deal of viewers won't have a clue what Punk was talking about when he mentioned Colt Cabana or Johnny Ace.

 

I'm thinking when the comment about Colt Cabana was made many viewers would have disengaged through confusion, unless the spirit of the promo was so good. By the sound of it this could very well be the case.

[Vito]

When I checked my Twitter feed this morning I noticed that Billy Corgan had retweeted this comment from Stone Cold Steve Austin:

 

steveaustinBSR

@CMPunk just melted my 52 inch TV with a scorching hot promo...delivery, content, and attitude...one of the best promos I've ever seen.

 

So as soon as I was able to get to the TV I put on Raw, which for the most part was just more of the same old shite, and aside from one or two interesting moments (DDP, HBK and Mark Henry) was pretty boring until, as usual, CM Punk saved the day by delivering the best promo in WWE history since Paul Heyman's Invasion angle speech. The whole thing was fucking brilliant and I loved every second of it, I realise that people are going to see it as "pandering to the smart crowd" or whatever, but for the first time in forever I found myself leaning forward in my seat and hanging on every single word. It's obviously a worked shoot and I cringed when I looked up the promo on YouTube and saw loads of comments from idiots who believe that Punk really was "shooting on the WWE", but you've got to admire Vince for okaying that promo as it was filled with words and terms that you'd never usually hear on WWE programming; "New Japan Pro Wrestling", "Ring Of Honor", "John Laurinaitis", "Paul Heyman", Hell the only person who seems to use the word "Wrestler" or "Wrestling" anymore is CM Punk.

 

So, yeah, brilliant stuff. I can't wait to see how they're going to fuck it all up.

[ColinBollocks]

That was one of the best endings of Raw ever. Truely memorable, as I couldn't believe Punk was allowed to say those things.

 

Also I disagree with people who say it's too 'insider' for the casual crowd. To the casual crowd he went mental and talked about how he's leaving because WWE aren't giving him the spotlight he feels he deserves (something similar to what R-Truth has been going on about). Also, while the internet cums over the promo, he also made sure to shit on the smarks that cheer him too, calling them all sheep.

 

For me it works on so many levels that promo.

 

Christ it's like 1997 again. Maybe that 65,000 buyrate has made WWE shit themselves and they're going mental again. Court Bauer had a meeting at Titan Towers a few weeks ago and said "some interesting changes are coming up", wonder what they're doing.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

I'd mark like hell if the Austin shirt was a sign of Austin getting involved in a big return programme with Punk. Say Punk wins the title and takes it to ROH and New Japan, WWE and Cena try and seize the title back, eventually filing a court injunction forcing him to defend it at Survivor Series. Punk loses, takes a locker room beatdown and is banished. Motivated by revenge, Punk tries to invade WWE shows, and is eventually given an invitation to settle the score with the WWE locker room by taking on one of its most respected members. Glass shatters.

[Dr Reefer]

I'd mark like hell if the Austin shirt was a sign of Austin getting involved in a big return programme with Punk. Say Punk wins the title and takes it to ROH and New Japan, WWE and Cena try and seize the title back, eventually filing a court injunction forcing him to defend it at Survivor Series. Punk loses, takes a locker room beatdown and is banished. Motivated by revenge, Punk tries to invade WWE shows, and is eventually given an invitation to settle the score with the WWE locker room by taking on one of its most respected members. Glass shatters.

 

 

If only the real Shane O'Mac could have come up with a story line like that.

[xear]

Have WWE ever worked with NJPW before? I remember them working with ROH (a deal where Richards appeared at a show despite being under a WWE contract in trade for using Jimmy Jacobs at a Smackdown taping).

[PowerButchi]

They did for years, I think. Up until some point in the 80's. I believe that's why you'd get Black Tiger, Tiger Mask and the Dynamite Kid on MSG cards, and NJPW had the rights to a couple of WWF titles.

[simonworden]

Not since the 80's - early 90's in any major capacity as far as I am aware.

[Snake Plissken]

Here's the spoilers for what happens next with the CM Punk situation. (Next week's RAW 4/7 Spoilers)

 

<-- click on 'spoiler' to show/hide the spoiler

 

 

From Cpt. Hawkeye:

 

- John Cena came out said he doesn